AGM 65D BSGHT flashing after handoff Question
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Hi,
I read the training manual and watched several videos. After following the procedure to align boresight with TGP, I’ve practiced and managed four out of five hits on static targets. At some point, I noticed that BSGHT on my WPN Page was flashing. I would say this was my third or fourth shot. Before each successful shot, I did have to slew the AGM65D seeker head to match the TGP box on the HUD and then TMS up when WPN Page is SOI. Securing a good lock and having a good keyhole, I’m almost certain that BSGHT is still flashing. I think I hit the the intended target anyway, but perhaps this was the occasion I missed? Am I missing something in procedure I ought to be doing and is the flashing BSGHT an indication of that?
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The aiming cross symbol flashes under marginal launch or track conditions. The text label “BSGT” on the periphery of the format should never flash to my knowledge.
There are other factors which affect such quality beyond keyhole. You want to obey 30-30-30 rule which is 30 degrees bank change since track began, 30 dps roll rate, and 30 degree degree bank from level. Cross should also flash in keyhole if no track exists at all which could be due to range or daylight level.
Given normal and correct EO-handoff combat utilization Maverick procedure the WPN format is never SOI. If manual slewing is required this means that EO handoff wasn’t as it should be.
Preperation of EO handoff is qualitatively to point a sensor (usually TGP but can be FCR or even HUD) to point track the same object which the missile is tracking and assigning this alignment to the boreisght calibration by the BSGT label OSB on the WPN format. In the (usual) case the TGP tracks the target first the initiated handoff must be interrupted so as to manually set the missile to this same target. This is repeated for all stations to be caibrated. It is possible to calibrate all stations having only tracked an object with TGP once by step and process of all missile stations in a single pass.
The conditions of Maverick pre-launch aiming cross flashing/not-flashing is the same regardelss of how that missile was made to track initially. All there is to be understood about Maverick track quality can be learned by any of the methods: bore, vis, pre, or automatic handoff.
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Thanks Frederf,
Based on your explanation here, then, I’m doing something wrong in procedure resulting in a poor handoff. As a result I have had to make WPN SOI and manually adjust the targeting lock. Not a big deal, but it does mean I have to get closer and lose at least of the Maverick’s stand-off advantage. I’ll keep practicing. It may be that I’m just not trusting the calibration, and I need only trust in my prep work.
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So, from your original post and Frederf’s answer, is the BSGT OSB flashing or is the aiming cross in the WPN page? Sorry, bit confused…
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Grifter, approaching a calibration area have the WPN |TGP| as your two MFDs. When you command a point track with TGP it begins a process of an automatic handoff. Before the calibration is made this handoff will fail if allowed to continue unsuccessfully. Interrupt the countdown by DMS down to switch SOI (|WPN| TGP) and track the same object as TGP. It does not matter the quality of track for this purpose, flashing aiming cross is fine.
Confirming that TGP point track and WPN track are tracking the same object simultaneously, press the OSB label “BSGT” to save the calibration. The sytem should be reset to the predesignation state by leaving the AG master mode and reentering it (MRM override is a common choice).
This calibration and automatic handoff is employed (or tested) tested by approaching a suitable object as before WPN |TGP|. When the object is within ~10nm command point track with TMS up. After a few seconds the Maverick should be commanded to track the same object. Maneuver the airplane and confirm the quality of track and range before firing.
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@ Grifter.
Do this EVERY TIME before you bore sight or point track with the TGP.
SOI - Weapon Page, OSB 3 or Pinky button for all mavericks. (Place them in the expanded mode.) Follow the guidance above from Frederf above, but just put the Maverick in expanded mode.
When I do this it’s 100% every time, bore sight and zero hand off issues when operating as above or per the Weapons Checklist in the Docs folder.
Hope it helps.
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@Grifter Following the above advice and then:
Another point as I’ve been working extensively with the Mav’s lately. Here is MY TECHNIQUE. << sorry have to do this to clairify it’s a TECHNIQUE not THE WAY.
When targeting, move the TGP cross away from a target and TMS FWD to select area Track. Then place the TGP cross over the target but DO NOT TMS FWD. Then in the HUD, fly the the Flight Path Marker down and place it over the TARGET BOX in the HUD with your flight controls, not the cursor.
If you quickly glance at the WPN page the cross is centered over the target. Now on the TGP page, TMS FWD long to lock the target and you will go to point track. (Small cursor movement on the TGP page may be required to get on the target). By the time you look back at the WPN page you will have a Handoff
over the selected station and a solid Cross over the target. (make sure mav is in expanded mode). When in range, pickle, Safe Escape Maneuver, Wash Rinse,Repeat.I like to work from a 12 NM Wheel (Clockwise) around 15,000 AGL with about 12 degrees of bank to hold the radius @ 350 KCAS. With the targeting pod in the center of the target area in Area Track, simply slew around and find the target you want. The Wheel will keep you protected altitude and Distance wise (Threat Recon) and SCADS (a lot) of time to find those targets. Once you locate, hover the TGP cross over the target, do NOT lock. Then roll in to about 10 degrees nose down pulling on the target until the FPM is over the target, Lock with TGP and you will notice the cross on the mav page is over the target and solid. Pickle and recover back out to the Wheel and start over. By the time you have lock and hand off you are JUST inside Max Range of the weapon.
I like to take out SA6 this way with the Golfs and sometimes the Deltas if i’m feeling brave. Great way to pick apart a AAA site. You can get all 6 mavs off with 100% hit count in about 5 minutes and also get specific targets not just what shows up on the FCR and how fast you can pick 6 random targets.
Base your wheel specs on the threats in the area. I have a video somewhere on the technique.
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@bill_3810:
SOI - Weapon Page, OSB 3 or Pinky button for all mavericks. (Place them in the expanded mode.) Follow the guidance above from Frederf above, but just put the Maverick in expanded mode.
If the TGP is SOI and in WIDE FOV switching to NARO FOV (with pinky switch or OSB 3) will automatically switch the AGM-65 WPN page to NFOV (no tracking gates will be visible). See page 163 of TO BMS1-F16CM-34-1-1.
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If the TGP is SOI and in WIDE FOV switching to NARO FOV (with pinky switch or OSB 3) will automatically switch the AGM-65 WPN page to NFOV (no tracking gates will be visible). See page 163 of TO BMS1-F16CM-34-1-1.
True but using my TECHNIQUE from above you don’t need to see the gates.
1.) With the Mavs bore sighted where the TGP is pointed is where the Seeker is pointed, within it’s gimbal limits.
2.) Once you fly the Flight Path Marker over the Target Box in the HUD and hold it there, since the Mav is bore sighted to the TGP, it WILL be within Gimbal limits, even with the Mav in NFOV.
3.) Small cursor slew on the TGP page if need be to get exactly on the target you will not be more than 2 or 3 degrees off if you followed everything to the T up to this point.
4.) Lock Target, look at WPN page you’ll have the Handoff and solid cross.
5.) Pickle in range. Tracking gates not needed.If you use another technique then so be it, but with this one, it works and works every single time. Be happy to show you the video for the non believers.
Another note about the technique and especially in the wheel. Once the TGP is hovering over the target all references to the target are taken from the HUD. FPM, TGT BOX, TARGET LOCATOR LINE and Relative Bearing gives you everything you need to get on the target and then go to TGP, lock, verify parameters on the WPN Page and launch.
One last thing. Don’t lock the target at 20 NM. Wait until you are just outside of the range of the mav lock and by the time you have handoff you can launch at max range if need be. Wheel sets this up for you so that once you lock you are at max range and launch.
Anyhow, finished explaining it, try if you want to, it tastes pretty good.
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If your technique works for you that’s what matters
I was just pointing out that there is no need to switch SOI to WPN and manually change each missile to EXP. This changed in Update 2 so I flagged it up just in case anyone hadn’t noticed; previously you had to TMS Up to ground stabilise the TGP before it would do this, which was not realistic.
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It does work for me and works well, with almost zero heads down time during the attack run. Keeping my eyes outside and on the target and sweeping for threats.
As far as the NFOV I have had bad luck bore sighting and getting the cross to go solid if I don’t switch to the NFOV prior to tracking a target, this is why I stated to switch it first. If I just lock the target with the Mav in the normal FOV more times than not i can’t get a solid cross. Switch to expanded and try it again boom good to go. I have no idea why, don’t care TBH just using what works for the time being.
Thanks for the info btw.
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@bill_3810:
As far as the NFOV I have had bad luck bore sighting and getting the cross to go solid if I don’t switch to the NFOV prior to tracking a target, this is why I stated to switch it first. If I just lock the target with the Mav in the normal FOV more times than not i can’t get a solid cross. Switch to expanded and try it again boom good to go. I have no idea why…
This is by design, reflecting the way the real missiles work.
“There is a significant increase in probability of hit for missiles launched in NFOV over missiles launched in WFOV. Advantages of NFOV are improved target identification and increased launch range. Missiles should be launched in NFOV whenever possible. Launching at WFOV may cause a loss of track after launch.” From page 155.
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Thanks folks, I appreciate the suggestions and feedback. I’ll be sure to give your technique a try, Bill. I’m still hitting 5 out of 6 targets and so I’m thinking I’m doing it right for the most part. I did read over the training manual thoroughly, but it’s a lot to digest. I’ll keep at it.
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If your good launches outnumber your bad then you probably have the right idea, the technique may just need a small amount of refinement.
TGP area track should be TMS right. A lot of people say it’s TMS forward but this is point track. The only reason it ends up in area is because the attempt to point fails back to area.
The auto-FOV works most times alright but it’s not a mind-reader. It can get in a state other than the operator would have chosen.
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Good points Darkman and Frederf. (completely forgot about the TMS Right)
I did another flight today and unfortunately from just inside 10 NM in Normal FOV with a 10-15 Deg Dive I couldn’t get a solid cross and that was all the way into almost 7 NM.
Rolled back out to the wheel re-entered and with Narrow FOV It was solid from the beginning.I don’t see how but there might be a possibility it varies from PC to PC but I don’t know really how that could be.
Gotta Stay current with the Mavs and practice them often, I just forget stuff after awhile and with a life and job it’s hard to keep on top of this hobby all the time.
From this point in the video I can show you the issue with the two different FOV’s. Maybe you can see something in the video i’m doing wrong but IDK.
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If you’re offset ~90° from the target in a wheel you can actually start your handoff just before or during your turn towards the target as long as you don’t exceed 30° of bank angle (-34 p147). The handoff will complete as you come out of the turn, giving you a bit more time for additional targets or scanning for threats before you pickle.
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If you’re offset ~90° from the target in a wheel you can actually start your handoff just before or during your turn towards the target as long as you don’t exceed 30° of bank angle (-34 p147). The handoff will complete as you come out of the turn, giving you a bit more time for additional targets or scanning for threats before you pickle.
Thanks, for the info. I think after being stung so much in the past with this bore sighting and hand off problems I’m a bit gun shy to try something that’s not dead center, especially knowing when I roll out i’ll be right on the money.
I will try this on the next flight AND get back into the books on the Mavs. It was read cover to cover when 4.33 came out but needs to be reviewed on a regular basis.
Cheers
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If you’re offset ~90° from the target in a wheel you can actually start your handoff just before or during your turn towards the target as long as you don’t exceed 30° of bank angle (-34 p147). The handoff will complete as you come out of the turn, giving you a bit more time for additional targets or scanning for threats before you pickle.
The 90 deg offset handoff will work correctly only if you wait for the HANOFF IN PROGRESS to flicker once and the start the roll in. If the roll in is executed immediately after the TMS UP handoff command, the result will be a flashing cross.
You forgot about this bug we picked up sometime ago.
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If your good launches outnumber your bad then you probably have the right idea, the technique may just need a small amount of refinement.
TGP area track should be TMS right. A lot of people say it’s TMS forward but this is point track. The only reason it ends up in area is because the attempt to point fails back to area.
The auto-FOV works most times alright but it’s not a mind-reader. It can get in a state other than the operator would have chosen.
I would just add that in handoff mode, TMS right will also cancel mav handoff target.
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That’s darn interesting. Will it recind a completed handoff as well as cancel a handoff in progress?
