Missile aerodynamics project
-
Yes it does… obvious. The difference with Humans is that they can have different reaction… or use different weapon or tactic… with AI u can create a pattern.
Also IIRC RWR will not be that accurate in future version… so u will not depend on it that much thus you will have to learn and fight without it… r u ready?
-
[Q UOTE=Arty;274425]
RWR is too accurate, easy to evade when you once see how it can ne done
hmmm, I strongly disagree with this … RWR not accurate @all …
btw, missile evadance… not 2 easy 2… perhaps by number-based BVR conditions agains AI. But too many ‘tricks’ available to humans in A/A engagements IMHO.
Regards,
Fan -
Yes it does… obvious. The difference with Humans is that they can have different reaction… or use different weapon or tactic… with AI u can create a pattern.
When the M pop"s on RWR there is way to trash missile bit easily if you are not too slow
-
hmmm, I strongly disagree with this … RWR not accurate @all …
btw, missile evadance… not 2 easy 2… perhaps by number-based BVR conditions agains AI. But too many ‘tricks’ available to humans in A/A engagements IMHO.
Regards,
FanIt is too accurate, just make search in here And read… Then you know better what we talk.
Dont be so fan
-
Also IIRC RWR will not be that accurate in future version… so u will not depend on it that much thus you will have to learn and fight without it… r u ready?
Im ready, And i wait update badly … Falcon is still my number one sim, real best of the best. so i like to it get real as it gets
-
It is too accurate, just make search in here And read… Then you know better what we talk.
Dont be so fan
hahaha, perhaps I should do my homework a bit better, I might misunderstands… happens to me too often
But ehh, concerning the accuracy,
@Mav-jp:only the weight bug is leading to a missile FM that will not match what original devs were seeking…
missile FM in high altitudes (seems) not to be accurate at all: medium + low are however quite accurate as it seems (you know, the rumors of RL pilots )
RWR indications of M-launch + following (but it might be my age too I do consider this) does not reflect the incoming missile (very) well, when it is within lethal range + aspect to own a/c …
-
hahaha, perhaps I should do my homework a bit better, I might misunderstands… happens to me too often
But ehh, concerning the accuracy,
missile FM in high altitudes (seems) not to be accurate at all: medium + low are however quite accurate as it seems (you know, the rumors of RL pilots )
RWR indications of M-launch + following (but it might be my age too I do consider this) does not reflect the incoming missile (very) well, when it is within lethal range + aspect to own a/c …
Dont worry, my English is bit poor so i may explain some thing badly
Problem is that when M apears in RWR it comes always very same time, So its easy to judge And time maneuvers when it hits inner circle … But dev"s are alredy fixed that, so in next version its gonna be fun
-
Yes, RWR is faaaaaaaaar too much accurate and reliable than IRL. In future, it will be a little bit “better” but still too accurate.
. But dev"s are alredy fixed that, so in next version its gonna be fun
No… There is nothing we can do for this passive cheat tip.
This is the limit of the simulation. If ppl don’t play it real… By knowing the sim’s limitations, there is nothing you can do.
-
Yes, RWR is faaaaaaaaar too much accurate and reliable than IRL. In future, it will be a little bit “better” but still too accurate.
No… There is nothing we can do for this passive cheat tip.
This is the limit of the simulation. If ppl don’t play it real… By knowing the sim’s limitations, there is nothing you can do.
Maybe inserti bit random error to M"s location in RWR And bit random to time when it comes up?
Anyway, i trust you guys And i think that after better missile data And even some RWR changes it is better than now
No need to make it perfect , it’s imposible in computer simulation (RL can’t be simulated 100% )
-
I believe u misspelled arcade… right?
The “wrong” thing in this vid AS is when and the condition the missile is fired by the AI. Missiles have limits and margins when u r aware he is going to do so then u can avoid it… This is mostly AI fire trigger conditions then missile FM, and since this is dynamic doesn’t mean it’s always the same or u can always avoid it.
In the second shoot u begin avoidance maneuvers before he fires the missile so u killed the missile before it was even fired. Nothing strange. Also since u pulled 9.5 G’s and the distance is close enough u don’t leave much space for the missile to react. Looks like AI shooting conditions need more tuning.Hi Arty.
You missed the point. I was just demonstrating the ueber-accurate RWR exploitation also know as “falcon break into the missile” trick, as many know.
This is not possible in real… and knowing and using it just ruins the BVR expirience in Falcon. There are reasons why it works… and solutions (imo) to fix it.Arty …you are a guy with MUUUCH passion and love for falcon… i wish i could see you also more flying MP with different people from all over the world.
PS: Afaik (from a chat with Dan Hampton) … one does not even see the M symbol of a 120 in your RWR in real.
-
Yes, RWR is faaaaaaaaar too much accurate and reliable than IRL. In future, it will be a little bit “better” but still too accurate.
No… There is nothing we can do for this passive cheat tip.
This is the limit of the simulation. If ppl don’t play it real… By knowing the sim’s limitations, there is nothing you can do.
I disagree……
demer
-
I disagree……
demer
I’d be very happy to consume your view sir. Any chance you can elaborate on this?
High regards,
Fan -
I disagree……
You can. But that Will not change or solve the problem.
Human vs human contests have some limitation. PPL will always be able to find turnarounds or train missile avoidance to death, just like in any other video game.
-
You can. But that Will not change or solve the problem.
Human vs human contests have some limitation. PPL will always be able to find turnarounds or train missile avoidance to death, just like in any other video game.
Not sure…
Try to avoid sa10 for instance -
Sa10 . meh…. try to avoid Standard Missile (ships) missile in BMS … OMG !!!
-
Not sure…
Try to avoid sa10 for instanceIn that case, lets simply give to AMRAAM the same lethality and maneuvrabilty to make it unavoidable
My point is, we can do a lot of stuff, but never prevent users to find some tips here and there. If it is not about RWR, it will be about something else.
For RWR, I’ve asked Who you know to makes the RWR’s spot “floating” a bit on each refresh cycle on the scope to prevent this M passive cheat based on RL video of my own RL RWR. But he is not planning to implement it as he has other tasks as you know. And I think he is not interested in that anymore. (?)
Can’t do better on my side. We will have the azimuth bias depending on working band… But no more for the moment. I would be in favor of a small randomness of the position of rwr spot in pseudo distance each cycle … But a need I’m not coder. I can’t do it entirely myself
-
In that case, lets simply give to AMRAAM the same lethality and maneuvrabilty to make it unavoidable
My point is, we can do a lot of stuff, but never prevent users to find some tips here and there. If it is not about RWR, it will be about something else.
For RWR, I’ve asked Who you know to makes the RWR’s spot “floating” a bit on each refresh cycle on the scope to prevent this M passive cheat based on RL video of my own RL RWR. But he is not planning to implement it as he has other tasks as you know. And I think he is not interested in that anymore. (?)
Can’t do better on my side. We will have the azimuth bias depending on working band… But no more for the moment. I would be in favor of a small randomness of the position of rwr spot in pseudo distance each cycle … But a need I’m not coder. I can’t do it entirely myself
and my point was to say that missiles FM generaly sucks and that is why we can observe shitty behaviors like front evasion
-
and my point was to say that missiles FM generaly sucks and that is why we can observe shitty behaviors like front evasion
Ah oky … ! … but is planned to be fixed right (?)
Anyway, some ppl here are “mainly” (?) talking about the missile avoidance cheat based on “M” symbol’s position in RWR … and, AFAIK, we have no plan to change this for the moment.
-
I have read many posts here over the years about how the RWR is too accurate and how that missiles cannot be dodged by using a “crossing turn” in front of them. So I guess I might as well throw in my 2 cents…
As to the RWR, I have never operated one in RL nor seen any manuals, as I imagine they are still classified. However just looking at the SPO-15 RWR display from a MIG 29, it seems that it is able to display the direction of a threat to within about 20 degrees of accuracy within the frontal 180 degree sphere of the aircraft (I imagine the number and placement of the RWR antennas plays a large part in accuracy/coverage), as well as whether it is above or below the aircraft. And the signal meter looks like it gives accurate signal strength data.
I have read that the French Rafale can fire missiles based on targets based on RWR data alone.
A valentine One radar detector for your car uses just 2 antennas (front and rear) and can display general direction of threats (front, rear, or sides), as well as accurate data on the signal strength data(visual meter and “beeps”) that you can use with experience to estimate range to threat based on radar type/frequency. It also used digital signal processing logic to help eliminate false alarms based on radar band, directional changes and signal strength. And that is just a $400 consumer device that has been sold for 22 years.
Based on that, it seems believable that the RWR in the F-16 could display some pretty accurate directional and distance data(based on digital processing of signal strength and radar type). My guess is that perhaps RL RWR’s also display numerous false alarms that are not real threats. Unless someone who has actually operated a modern RWR is allowed to speak on the subject though, we can only make educated guesses.
As far as the “crossing turn” method of dodging BVR missiles fired from the front goes, I do not understand why anyone thinks that this could not be effective(if not always wise). Missiles are traveling very fast and have small wings and control surfaces and therefore large turning circles. In Robert Shaw’s “Fighter Combat: Tactics and Manuevering” he describes both a crossing turn across the missile, as well as a high G barrel roll around the missile as effective defensive techniques against threat missiles fired at you from the front quarter, especially against the larger BVR missiles and at higher altitudes(page 61). Now if someone were to fire two missiles at you a few seconds apart, you would probably fly directly into the second one using those methods, or be too slow to reverse the turn(the Russian tactic of firing 2 BVR missiles a few seconds apart may not be just about using a variety of seekers). And although possibly effective, in RL you may not feel as confident turning into a missile unless you have no other option as the “escape button” on a real jet is a bit more unpleasant than on our keyboards!
-
I have read that the French Gripen can fire missiles based on targets based on RWR data alone.
the …?
…
In any cases, you can rely on RWR to trigger an evasive manoeuvre like this even with a very good RWR.
Mine is admitted to be very efficient, but I will never use it like this… And anyway, I will never be able to try in real conditions or train it with a real missile to see if it works … Hence, it can’t be used like this IRL.
Doing this in the sim is pure passive cheat and based on knowledges of simulator’s “routine” which is always working the same way using a defined database.