Comparing low-end to high-end joysticks
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Hi,
i’m currently using a very low end Thrustmaster USB Joystick with a tiny integrated throttle elver (http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/usb-joystick - I dunno if it’s even sold any more).
Needless to say, this joystick is quite bad.
But apart from the lack of buttons and hats, the thing i suffer most from is the very poor precision around the center-point. Maneuvers requiring small adjustments, like landings are difficult and air refueling is clearly impossible.
I clearly want to buy another joystick for us with F4.
My question is, as i only ever had this PC joystick in my life, are higher end models really better in the precision?
It sounds obvious, but i need to make sure i don’t spend my money on buttons and hats only, but on increased precision around the center point.What joysticks are good or best in that aspect?
I’d really be interested in experience from people who went from a low-end to a mid- or high-end joystick and hear what they have to say.
Only reviews of high end joysticks don’t help me that much because they lack the comparison aspect.Taking the current product spectrum from Thrustmaster as an example, from low- to high-end:
- Somethign like my current USB joystick
- T.Flight Hotas X
- T.16000M FCS HOTAS
- Warthog HOTAS
Where is the transition where sufficient center-point accuracy is reached?
But any other comparison experiences I’d be equally interested in.
Thanks,
Logic -
Yes - I note that the more you spend, the better you get. I have a Cougar, and a Warthog, and the Warthog is better - better buttons, better precision, better longevity.
Can’t speak to any of the others - don’t like my CH gear anymore…forces are way too light (which also has an impact on precision about zero), and when they break they are broken.
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I got into F4 a couple years ago. I started with the keyboard. I was intrigued about the sim but had very little info about it. I first started with the keyboard and realized I would have to have a joystick of some kind so I ran out and bought a “Walmart special” joystick. Flying with that cheap stick I fell in love with falcon 4. As I learned an progressed so did my equipment. I upgrade to a X55 rhino HOTAS. My flying improved, the X55 was way more accurate than the cheap Walmart stick, plus the throttle and extra buttons added to the immersion of the sim. I recently purchased a Thrustmaster Cougar Hotas and a FSSB 3 force mod. I didnt even try the cougar stock gimbals out, I went straight to the force mod install……man am I blown away. I don’t think you can get any better setup as far as HOTAS goes. Well probably the warthog because its newer but other than that…just as Stevie said…the more you spend…My father once gave me advice when I was young that always seems to ring true…the cheap man always pays twice!!
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X-56 logitech is the best middle ground for all the windows games and only has one POV hat(a falcon issue), and the software works easily and is a breeze. warthog temporary switches make it a warthog sim stick, heavy metal, not easily maintained. it’s 250.00 but it’s worth it.
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Thanks guys.
I don’t doubt the general “the more you spend the better it gets”.
But my question is about center-precision (dead zone) precisely. -
Hi,
many years ago, in the 90ies, in the dark pre-BMS ages, I started with a Logitech Wingman, sometime in the 2000s bought a Microsoft Sidewinder Precision Pro.
Then, after getting into BMS, I got a used Saitek X45 HOTAS and when it started to die, finally got a Warthog.Now, the Warthog obviously beats them all, with its superb build quality, precision features, switches, POV-hats etc…
BUT I have to give the Sidewinder a honorable mention. I liked that stick a lot. Besides its tiny throttle and lack of sufficient hats and buttons, it was good. Good center precision allowed for smooth formation flight and refueling…
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This post is deleted! -
Currently I use a Thrustmaster T Flight X as my stick and an X52 Pro throttle. The stick is essentially the same as yours, should use the same gimbal and sensors. It’s definitely not the best stick, but I find it workable until my replacement gets here. I can land just fine, and while AAR isn’t easy, it’s not impossible. Just takes some practice.
If you have the funds, do not discount options like the Virpil T-50 or VKB Modern Combat Grip. They’re on the ultra-premium side of the spectrum, but they’re on a different level altogether when compared to the Warthog or X-56, particularly when it comes to the gimbal and sensors. I have a MCG ordered, and can provide more input when it arrives next month.
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Regarding center play deadzone…
Stock TM Cougar sucks, nasty center play (was great in its opening days though). The springs and gimbals, plus analog potentiometers are old school. The rest of the stick is still very good which makes it still a good platform for Hall position and Strain force sensor mods.
Stock Whog is very good, minor center play (best bang for the buck)
Force modded Cougar or Whog rocks, virtually zero center play issues (expensive but top shelf)
There are other sticks?
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I had two low-end joysticks… well, three, actually. I had a Gravis joystick (can’t remember the model) that went bad after a while and got replaced by a newer iteration of the model. Years later, I had a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. The Logi was about 12-13 years ago. 7 years ago, I had a Cougar HOTAS, then got a Warthog 6 years ago.
the cheap man always pays twice!!
I can’t really vouch for whether this is true or not…. but simply put, my Cougars were always hangar queens. My Logitech went bad soon after purchase and I spent maybe half of it’s “lifespan” cleaning out the pots if I wanted to fly. My TM Warthog has never seen the inside of the box after I took it out.
My logic lately is that if I can afford it, I’ll buy equipment that will allow me to work my skill up to a higher level. I don’t want to practice AARs and not be able to connect due to bad hardware… I want my hardware to be very good such that if I practice AARs and not be able to connect, that would be because of ME not being able to connect to the tanker.
As for center precision and deadzones, well, the TM WH has HALL sensors so I think that’s as precise as you can make it. The issue at this level is not the sensor but rather the physical gimbals that are used.
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I use a Saitek X-65F, and I can’t imagine wanting to fly with anything else. Everything works as advertised and the programmability is highly flexible and robust.
Don’t know how easy it would be to find one in good shape, though. Never understood why they stopped making them.
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Thanks guys.
I don’t doubt the general “the more you spend the better it gets”.
But my question is about center-precision (dead zone) precisely.…still holds - +1 to what AV8R says!
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I had two low-end joysticks… well, three, actually. I had a Gravis joystick (can’t remember the model) that went bad after a while and got replaced by a newer iteration of the model.
Wow…I think I still have one of those around, someplace…a Mac one. I remember it’s big claim was that it was optically coupled. I think mine still even works, but I forget how it’s connected.
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As for center precision and deadzones, well, the TM WH has HALL sensors so I think that’s as precise as you can make it.
The T.16000M has Hall sensors too! That’s on a 40 EUR stick vs 200+ EUR for a Whog. I know the WH is much better with lots of more hats, switches and better (metal) durability. But does it mean in terms of precision it is the same?
The issue at this level is not the sensor but rather the physical gimbals that are used.
So what about those in comparison then?
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Wow…I think I still have one of those around, someplace…a Mac one. I remember it’s big claim was that it was optically coupled. I think mine still even works, but I forget how it’s connected.
Not sure if we’re talking about the same one. This was the Gravis joystick that I originally purchased, a Gravis Blackhawk Digital and when that went bad, I asked for and got a Gravis Eliminator Precision Pro. I remember activating the “precision mode” when practicing carrier landings in Jane’s F/A-18. Mind you, this was easily about 20 years ago
The T.16000M has Hall sensors too! That’s on a 40 EUR stick vs 200+ EUR for a Whog. I know the WH is much better with lots of more hats, switches and better (metal) durability. But does it mean in terms of precision it is the same?
So what about those in comparison then?I’m not sure as I’ve never used a T16000M stick. Both sticks boasts 16-bit precision but the TM WH page states 65536 x 65536 values while the T.1600M HOTAS page states 16000 x 16000 values?? The difference in price is clearly not in the HALL sensor technology but in the construction and switches/buttons of the different units.
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I had: genius f22, saitek evo, saitek X-52, CH Fighterstick, Thrustmaster Cougar and now I use Virpil T-50. T-50 is the best of all. The deflection force is adjustable, the center can be set soft - medium - hard. So virpil base t-50 + Cougar grip + throttle hotas cougar is a great kit. Customizable and metallic
Sorry for my english. -
I’m a mig geek so I need something like that virpil for the mig and the su…eventually.
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WOWZER, that throttle, phewwwww…they should of named it sex machine!
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Not sure if we’re talking about the same one. This was the Gravis joystick that I originally purchased, a Gravis Blackhawk Digital and when that went bad, I asked for and got a Gravis Eliminator Precision Pro. I remember activating the “precision mode” when practicing carrier landings in Jane’s F/A-18. Mind you, this was easily about 20 years ago
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iSCdls7YcxY/WeEeQ20WPSI/AAAAAAAABGg/2IXn6ovWaR8NjdTUal0vlFLOpNJMfB-mQCLcBGAs/s1600/JOY-1017-unit.jpg https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ecUvE2WXKtc/WeEdkdzurMI/AAAAAAAABGc/AHPVous25iw_iVXz_dJMJhOJj_3x-n_qACLcBGAs/s1600/41G7A66N1KL.jpg
I’m not sure as I’ve never used a T16000M stick. Both sticks boasts 16-bit precision but the TM WH page states 65536 x 65536 values while the T.1600M HOTAS page states 16000 x 16000 values?? The difference in price is clearly not in the HALL sensor technology but in the construction and switches/buttons of the different units.
No - mine is WAY simpler than that one, and probably much older…it’s like this one -
Way old-school…now that I see a picture it’s probably Mac ADB connected. But if I can find my old ADB-USB adapter, I think it would still work!
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No - mine is WAY simpler than that one, and probably much older…it’s like this one -
I suspected as much