Question about CCIP bombing: Bombs won't release. What is delayed mode?

[Logic]

I’m trying to get some more info on CCIP bombing mode.
I tried the training mission several times now and although overall works well, there are instances when the bombs don’t release on pickle.

All i can find in the Training documentation is:
CCIP is a visual mode that does not need target designation. Its symbology displayed on the HUD shows where the bombs will hit if released at any specific moment. If the bombs would fall outside the HUD field of view, the pipper switches to a delayed mode; more information on this later.

I didn’t find any “later” with more info.
Also, when it occured, the pipper was well within the HUD FoV.

It also happens to Krause in his CCIP video:

At 21:30, Krause demonstrates and explains that it happens that you need to fly into the relase cue. But it doesn’t get clear what the condition is when this happens.

There’s this funny moment at 22:05 when he says that the following pickle will imediately relase the bomb but when he does it doesn’t and he corrects to “almost immediately”

Finally, on the actual bombing run, 24:30 ff, not all bombs will release as he pickles, although most do.

I find this most intruiging and difficult to predict or reproduce so i’m asking what is the reason behind this?
As obviously, the bomb will fall somehwere when it is released immediately and that somewhere is supposed to be indicated by the CCIP pipper i find it difficult to understand that the realese needs to be hold off in any case.

[Cik]

CCIP is a visual dive bombing mode, which means that the pipper is not valid under all conditions.

ex:

falcon 1-1 flying at 36,000 feet level fight enables CCRP on his MK82AIR (parachute retarded bombs) which will fall almost exactly straight down. however, his CCIP pipper shows that he can hit a target 20nm away. when he pushes pickle to drop the bomb over the horizon, the computer refuses- it is because the computer knows that the release is not valid.

ex2: falcon 1-1 enters a 30 degree dive at 8,000 feet and places the pipper over the target and punches pickle: the bomb releases because the computer knows that the pipper at the moment of release is valid and the bomb will (mostly) get to the target.

ex3: falcon 1-1 enters a 30 degree dive at 15,000 feet and places the pipper over the target and punches pickle: a small 5 second countdown displays on the HUD and he keeps holding pickle until the release point at which point the bomb falls off. this happens because the computer estimates that the pipper will be valid by the time the countdown hits 00:00 and so it gives you a release cue and time.

basically the CCIP cue(s) are only valid if you are within the release parameters of your weapon, in a dive and not too far from the ground. don’t try to bomb stuff over the horizon and you’ll be good.

in particular you’ll just have to get an intuitive feel for what a valid release looks like- there is no hard and fast rule AFAIK and all the parameters of your aircraft and weapon play a part (speed, dive angle, altitude, aspect, weapon type, etc.)

[Logic]

I do understand there would be conditions where releasing wouldn’t be feasible. But then wouldn’t it be better to visually indicate this with say a barred pipper?
I can’t believe real pilots don’t get a visual feedback and need to rely on their gut feeling of when a pipper is valid or not.

[Krause]

First of all, i’m sorry for the old tutorials, I know people still reference them but I have gained 4+ years of active flying experience since then I wish I had time to reshoot them all.

Get your pipper on what you want to bomb, then hold down the pickle button and fly straight, eventually the bomb will come off.

You can shorten this release time if you pull up into the fall line as it will loft the bomb. If you are off parameters though (A few degrees/left right, or maybe you dove slightly) you may result in no release.

[Cik]

@Logic:

I do understand there would be conditions where releasing wouldn’t be feasible. But then wouldn’t it be better to visually indicate this with say a barred pipper?
I can’t believe real pilots don’t get a visual feedback and need to rely on their gut feeling of when a pipper is valid or not.

real pilots have read the manual back to front 100 times and have probably at least a few hundred if not a few thousand hours of practice and several trips to various ranges.

it may seem nebulous now but for me for instance i can literally instantly tell you release/no release depending on the parameters of the jet.

[Quasi_Stellar]

CCIP is a a purely visual aiming tool. You put the thing on the thing… if you are too far from an immediate release, you’ll just have to hold consent and fly till release. I understand where Cik is coming from. After some time you will get a sense of your speed and altitude, and when to pickle without a delay (or much of one).

[DBond]

I can’t believe real pilots don’t get a visual feedback

You do have visual feedback, the delay cue. When the delay cue is present you will consent, then fly post designate CCRP like any CCRP drop.

[Logic]

@DBond:

You do have visual feedback, the delay cue. When the delay cue is present you will consent, then fly post designate CCRP like any CCRP drop.

Oh, interesting! Is it that? Will check this out.

[Blu3wolf]

@Cik:

real pilots have read the manual back to front 100 times and have probably at least a few hundred if not a few thousand hours of practice and several trips to various ranges.

it may seem nebulous now but for me for instance i can literally instantly tell you release/no release depending on the parameters of the jet.

I can do that too… presence of the delay cue = delayed release:D

To be fair if the delay cue is there you are either pickling early or you are on a high wire

[DBond]

@Blu3wolf:

I can do that too… presence of the delay cue = delayed release:D

+1

Folks who determine this state by experience and judgement are like folks who judge their speed on the highway by counting how fast the mile markers go by. Others just use the speedometer

[thereisnotime]

PUT THE THING ON THE THING, type F to pay respects

[white_fang]

@quasi_stellar and @cik , CCIP is NOT purely visual bombing , tho, cue is represented on hud, but! , the AG FCR is set to AGR mode and locked to 5-10nm in front-down of the plane, which is explained in the ‘darn’ manual.

So R-ranging is constantly computed , now, that’s not just purely visual agreed? , otoh , target selection IS , … like said, put the thingy thing on the thing… and prey that your bombing preset will allow ‘instant’ drop of bombs and not … delayed

[Frederf]

CCIP is visual because that’s how the target is selected.

[white_fang]

Agreed. As I’ve said, targeting and/or target selection Is visual. But is also computer/radar assisted, at least in ranging/height bomb-fall location calculation, so in some nitpicketty form , not purely visual.

Pure visual sight is ref. bombing sight in hud, ie. wwii , when everything else fails.

Cheers