EWS/Countermeasures/Jammer/CMS - Help!
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Can someone please explain EWS and countermeasures management to me?
I searched the manuals and the internet but found diverging, highly confusing answers.Data cartridge:
What i understand:
There are 6 chaff/flares programs that can be configured as liked. - OK
Questions:- What is burst vs sequence qunatity/duration?
- REQJAM?
- REQCTR?
Cockpit controls:
http://www.xflight.de/original/parts/left_aux_console/chaffflare/chaffflare_02.gif
PRGM knob: BIT-1-2-3-4, what does BIT mean?
MODE knob: OFF-STBY-MAN-SEMI-AUTO-BYP - wtf?
Jammer:
Yeah, well, i know how to switch it on/off. :? But when should i do it, and how does it relate to MODEs (above) and CMS function (below)?CMS:
http://users.telenet.be/aviator/images/CMS.JPG
CMS Forward: Run pgm 1-4 (whichever selected) - OK
CMS Left: Run pgm 6 - OK
CMS Right: ECM STBY, Semi from Auto - wtf?
CMS Aft: ECM enable, Semi/auto consent - wtf? -
Have you checked here: x:\Falcon BMS 4.33 U1\Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals\TO-BMS1F-16CM-1.pdf
Page 32, 1.2.2.4 CMDS panel
Edit,
Should answer many of your questions, but maybe not all of them.
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Can someone please explain EWS and countermeasures management to me?
I searched the manuals and the internet but found diverging, highly confusing answers.Data cartridge:
What i understand:
There are 6 chaff/flares programs that can be configured as liked. - OK
Questions:- What is burst vs sequence qunatity/duration? A burst is how many chaff or flare in in a sequence, at what timing, a sequence is how many bursts at what timing
- REQJAM?
- REQCTR? Mode dependent, youâll get a Voice Announcement suggesting you emit either jammer of Chaff/Flares at this time
Cockpit controls:
http://www.xflight.de/original/parts/left_aux_console/chaffflare/chaffflare_02.gif
PRGM knob: BIT-1-2-3-4, what does BIT mean? Built In Test - not implemented (you cannot rotate to this setting)
MODE knob: OFF-STBY-MAN-SEMI-AUTO-BYP - wtf? Off - Standby - Manual release - Semi-Automatic release - Automatic Release - Bypass â do that make it more obvious?Jammer:
Yeah, well, i know how to switch it on/off. :? But when should i do it, and how does it relate to MODEs (above) and CMS function (below)?
You turn it on at Ramp, and turn it off at Ramp
CMS:
http://users.telenet.be/aviator/images/CMS.JPG
CMS Forward: Run pgm 1-4 (whichever selected) - OK
CMS Left: Run pgm 6 - OK
CMS Right: ECM STBY, Semi from Auto - wtf?
CMS Aft: ECM enable, Semi/auto consent - wtf? In Semi, if the system deems Jamming required, it will shout you for permission, upon which a single consent will let the system manage the Jammer activity until you consent again to return it to Semi. In Auto, if basically emits the Jammer when system deems it necessaryAll this info is in the manuals, just keep looking and youâll come across it eventually, and itâll all click into place. I would reference you, but donât have the manuals to hand currently.
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Oh for crying out loud, i always forget that TO-BMS1F-16CM-1 manual!
Thanks guys. -
In addition to the Dash 1 Manual, I find it helpful to encourage new players to use Weapons Deliver Planner where they can easily set up EWS Programs and much more involving the Data Transfer Cartridge. UO has a great wiki on the subject, with a few videos as well: http://www.unitedoperations.net/wiki/BMS_Configuration_and_Setup#Setting_up_the_Data_Transfer_Cartridge_.28DTC.29
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Can someone please explain EWS and countermeasures management to me?
I searched the manuals and the internet but found diverging, highly confusing answers.Data cartridge:
What i understand:
There are 6 chaff/flares programs that can be configured as liked. - OK
Questions:- What is burst vs sequence qunatity/duration?
- REQJAM?
- REQCTR?
Cockpit controls:
http://www.xflight.de/original/parts/left_aux_console/chaffflare/chaffflare_02.gif
PRGM knob: BIT-1-2-3-4, what does BIT mean?
MODE knob: OFF-STBY-MAN-SEMI-AUTO-BYP - wtf?Jammer:
Yeah, well, i know how to switch it on/off. :? But when should i do it, and how does it relate to MODEs (above) and CMS function (below)?CMS:
http://users.telenet.be/aviator/images/CMS.JPG
CMS Forward: Run pgm 1-4 (whichever selected) - OK
CMS Left: Run pgm 6 - OK
CMS Right: ECM STBY, Semi from Auto - wtf?
CMS Aft: ECM enable, Semi/auto consent - wtf?I agree with everyone you should do a little research in the manual. But I hate when everyone sends you to the manual without answering any of the questions as well:
A burst is an instance of the chaff/flares being dispensed. For each burst, I can send 0-x flares and/or 0-x chaff. Sequence is how many times the burst will fire for each activation of the program. The timing is how long to wait between each respective iteration: How many ms between flares in a burst, or how long to wait between the bursts in a sequence.
REQJAM/REQCTR I believe is described in detail in the manual, if not re-post and Iâll add some details (If I tell you everything youâre less likely to read the manual⌠).BIT is Built In Testânot used in the game. Mode Knob is also discussed in the manual, but the skinny is: Auto will automatically fire the selected program when a threat is detected, and the ECM is enabled from the CMS. Semi will request consent, and manual will require you to always activate the program manually. CMS Right turns off the jammer and puts the program into a âsemiâ active state, requiring consent to dispense. CMS aft enables the jammer and provides consent to the system to operate in an âautoâ mode against detected threats using the selected program.
Also, not listed in your question is the CMS Slapâwhich fires Program 5. There are a lot of people who use 5 and 6 as single chaff/flare programs and fly in manual mode so you can have some granular control over your countermeasure system. Or they setup one of the programs (1-4) to be a simple single burst of several chaff/flare just to get something out of the aircraft when a threat is detected, which gives you (a little) time to analyze the incoming threat and use 5/6 to effectively try to combat the threat without wasting a ton countermeasures in pre-planned programs.
EDIT: I didnât see Malcâs responses in Bold, so my apologies for the double answers on some stuff.
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donât fall into a set thing, I see a lot of the VFW guys Iâve flown with and talked to elsewhere started with an SOP for the EWS programs for a few environs, like a CAP, a sead, a CAS, and they find that to be too limiting. The SOP now tends to be âknow how everything works, and donât be against programming something in the pitâ I prefer the semi mode personally,so depending on what Iâm rolling into I use one of the 4 modes iâve got set up.
first mode no.1 is a dummy mode, one flare, 3 chaff separated by a beat each, and then one more flare. a beat is the common reference Iâve found, and is equivalent to about .250-.350 secs., depending on what kind of music you listen to.
second mode is chaff only, same timing as the first, 3 each press separated by a beat. good for active radar AA and SAMS, in combo with the jammer and cranks.
third mode is flare only, a double pump of two per burst, at three bursts, each burst of two separated by a bar (4 bars make a measure), so about .8 seconds, so 3.20 seconds in a measure, .8 seconds in a bar, and a beat is about.2 to.3 seconds. You need timing refrences because youâre going to be cranking or pumping or notching at around 400 IAS in perfect circumstances.slap switch is a ten string of flares with chaff throughout, mode six is a âWTF is shooting at me right nowâ and it dumps chaff and flares and is made to dive and ground mask, at your own timing discretion.
timing is important in missiles because itâs based on probability and physics models , I donât know how itâs modeled, but I make them eat flares quite a bit.
I usually use the semi mode.
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I agree with everyone you should do a little research in the manual. But I hate when everyone sends you to the manual without answering any of the questions as well: âŚâŚ
Because giving a specific reference in the manual was more efficient than trying to define and/or describe each function individually. If thereâs something in the manual he doesnât understand, he can still come back here and ask.
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Because giving a specific reference in the manual was more efficient than trying to define and/or describe each function individually. If thereâs something in the manual he doesnât understand, he can still come back here and ask.
But it doesnât help the random forum sniffer who just wants/needs a quick answer, or some practical advice from a real user. Donât get me wrong, I appreciate that you added page and para references, a lot. Itâs much more than most people do. But sometimes a quick answer is all you have time for, or the answers in the book donât make sense, or you donât have immediate access to the docs folder (I do much of my forum surfing at work, no docs or install to use as a reference). Iâm just saying itâs nice to be able to find some legit information and answers in the forums, as well as the book. And itâs extremely informative and educational when new users feel like they can find real information in the forums, because often during a quick search for something like âEWS REQJAMâ youâll stumble across a thread with experience and practical advice. But if new users feel like theyâre just going to be told to read a manual every time and never get any real answers, they stop searching the forums altogether and just use Ctrl-F in the manuals, and all that experience goes to waste. The manuals are excellent for the technical side of things, but it would be impossible to cram all the experience and perspective of the community into a few PDFs.
This thread is a perfect example: 4 different suggested setups or scenarios, an external reference, confirmation that a specific setting on the knob is not implemented, advice on how/when/where to use the jammer, brief description of how it all works together, and supporting arguments for why experienced players configure their setup in a specific way. In the same screen space as roughly 2 pages of the manualâall in addition to your precise manual reference where he/she can go to find more detailed info.
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mortesil the meme for this board is, read the manual. in fact someday they will just make every thread link back to a pinned post saying âread the manual.â
some things have to remain unsaid here, and for a discussion board in any environment, that is stupid. -
Hey guys. Iâm fine with people telling me to RTFM. I didnât read that manual indeed (this time), so blame on me. And thanks for those who responded anyway, either with references to manual or other info. Much appreciated.
Questions remaining that (i think) werenât covered:
** REQJAM, REQCTR?
From TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1:
The REQCTR (request to counter) option enables/disables the âCOUNTERâ VMU message used to indicate that the EWS has determined that expendables should be dispensed and manual consent is requested.
I assume REQJAM is same for jammer.
Seems relevant only for SEMI/AUTO modes where consent is required.
But when the message is not shown, how do i know when to give consent?
I donât get the scenario where setting this to OFF makes sense. Whatâs the behaviour when set to OFF?
Is it only the message not being shown or does it no more care for any consent and act autonomously?** Iâm still confused about when the jammer really emits in the different modes.
JMR switch only relevant for MAN mode or does it need to be ON for SEMI/AUTO modes to work too?
Help me correct this:
Jammer starts to emit when âŚ- Mode:MAN and JMR:ON (constantly, until changed)
- Mode:SEMI and threat detected and REQJAM=1 and consent given (CMS down) (once? how long?)
- Mode:AUTO and threat detected and REQJAM=1 and consent given (CMS down) (for duration of threat?)
Btw: Are there any drawbacks having the jammer emitting all the time?
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Hey guys. Iâm fine with people telling me to RTFM. I didnât read that manual indeed (this time), so blame on me. And thanks for those who responded anyway, either with references to manual or other info. Much appreciated.
Questions remaining that (i think) werenât covered:
** REQJAM, REQCTR?
From TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1:
I assume REQJAM is same for jammer.
Seems relevant only for SEMI/AUTO modes where consent is required.
But when the message is not shown, how do i know when to give consent?
I donât get the scenario where setting this to OFF makes sense. Whatâs the behaviour when set to OFF?
Is it only the message not being shown or does it no more care for any consent and act autonomously?** Iâm still confused about when the jammer really emits in the different modes.
JMR switch only relevant for MAN mode or does it need to be ON for SEMI/AUTO modes to work too?
Help me correct this:
Jammer starts to emit when âŚ- Mode:MAN and JMR:ON (constantly, until changed)
- Mode:SEMI and threat detected and REQJAM=1 and consent given (CMS down) (once? how long?)
- Mode:AUTO and threat detected and REQJAM=1 and consent given (CMS down) (for duration of threat?)
Btw: Are there any drawbacks having the jammer emitting all the time?
Some missiles home in on your jammer. It also makes you very easy to spot on radar, not good if youâre trying to be stealthy.
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Some missiles home in on your jammer. It also makes you very easy to spot on radar, not good if youâre trying to be stealthy.
This is rather contested on the forums as to whether HOJ actually works, or is even implemented. The general consensus leans toward no. I can tell you that there is no specific flag or indicator in the Database which identifies a missile or specific type of seeker/sensor as HOJ capableâwhich you can verify in the Falcon Editor. That doesnât mean one of the other flags hasnât been re-purposed to facilitate that function, but I could find no reference to it during my research and development for the project Iâm currently working on. It does however make you easier to spot on the radar, at least to other players. EMCON and RF emission states are another gray area that lack specific definition, so IRL, yes having the jammer on makes you easier to see. Whether or not the AI is programmed to leverage that or not is entirely different, and relatively unknown beyond general forum speculation.
As for the REQJAM/CTR, try setting up a quick TE to answer your own question. Itâs good practice to comfortable with creating TEs and working through some of these issues. Create a TE with a single red side SAM and try the 4 different scenarios: REQ on/off, Semi/Auto. I think the most effective way to really understand it is to see it in action. Youâll find that Semi/Auto work VERY similarly to each other.
You can monitor when the jammer is actually active by watching the ECM light on the left side of the cockpit.
