Keeping distance in formation flights
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Hi there,
well, now that I am flying for about 6 months with the great UOAF guys, I just recently noticed a problem of mine again.
I have severe problems keeping a proper distance in distant formation flying.
In a Thunderbirds-Fingertip, it is not really a problem as it is quite easy for me to judge my movement relative to the other plane, but not so much when the distances between the airplanes get bigger.
In DCS I don’t have that much problems. I wonder if it is due to the lower resolution of BMS?
Do you guys have any tips for a beginner pilot?
Greetings
Chris -
Air-to-air TACAN
IDM
FCR soft lock (for quick checks, not continuously or you’ll lose your situational awareness)Use those until you can visually gauge the distance from different formation positions more or less correctly. Even once you know how to fly right visually, you can keep the first two as crutches to verify your location.
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Ok, thanks for the heads-up?
What is IDM?
I also find it difficult to judge if there is any lateral movement to the other planes. Really hard to tell.
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Ok, thanks for the heads-up?
What is IDM?
I also find it difficult to judge if there is any lateral movement to the other planes. Really hard to tell.
If you’re in a 9000’ spread, for example, you’re not going to be precisely at 1.5nm. If you’re drifting, by A/A TACAN to 1.6 … 1.7, toe it in a little. If you’re closing to 1.4 … 1.3, toe it out a little.
“Distant formation flying” is not precision formation.
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Alright, thanks for the heads-up!
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Also, in this formation guide (http://www.combatsimchecklist.net/F4download_checklists.htm) (by Reddog, I think), for the non-precision formations there is allowance for maneuver, in some cases a ‘cone’ of maneuver, in others a ‘wedge’ of maneuver.
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IDM is an acronym for Improved Datalink Modem. Check the TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1 in Falcon BMS 4.33\Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals for more information.
As Agave said, tactical formation is indeed not as precise as close formation. Usually, you’re able to operate within a certain margin (1 - 1.5NM usually, but that depends on squadron SOP, tactics, …), so converging or diverging on your lead isn’t that big of an issue if you notice it in time.
During your initial training, you could ask for your lead to pass you his parameters (heading, altitude, speed), and then try to match those data in a proper formation position.
You can also do it the other way around: visually move into what you think is a good position, then check your parameters and finally ask for your leads’ to see how far off you are.You’ll notice that you get better with practice.
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Thank you very much, folks!
Yeah, we almost always use either IDM or TACAN, maybe even both.
That Heading,Altitude, Speed thing is a good idea though.
Also, I need to focus on not drifting left or right. This happens a lot to me and it is clearly visible in Tacview as well.
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Be sure your lead isn’t making things unnecessarily difficult for you by not flying tight numbers himself. Check the ACMI for his consistency, and if need be mention it during debrief. If he is good and honest, he’ll acknowledge he is part of your problem. You would be surprised how the easy the “best” can get it wrong.
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Hi there,
well, now that I am flying for about 6 months with the great UOAF guys, I just recently noticed a problem of mine again.
I have severe problems keeping a proper distance in distant formation flying.
In a Thunderbirds-Fingertip, it is not really a problem as it is quite easy for me to judge my movement relative to the other plane, but not so much when the distances between the airplanes get bigger.
In DCS I don’t have that much problems. I wonder if it is due to the lower resolution of BMS?
Do you guys have any tips for a beginner pilot?
Greetings
ChrisDid you enable SmartScaling?
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In DCS I don’t have that much problems. I wonder if it is due to the lower resolution of BMS?
Are you setting BMS resolution lower than you are setting it for DCS? It must be same between BMS and DCS as long as you setup same resolution for 3D world.
One thing you would not see in DCS would be the Smart Scaling effect you can enable/disable at SETUP page.
In my experience, what changes formation distance is unmatching airspeed between lead and myself. Frequently asking lead reference/target airspeed might help. Or you can check yours airspeed difference by always keeping lead seen at same heading. If you need to slightly turn out to keep at which heading the lead is from you, your speed is lower than lead. If you need to turn in your speed is higher than lead.
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At full HD you should be able to visually range to lead… if not, fly some visual ranging exercises by setting yardstick, then maneuvering around lead and noting aspect and range, and how it affects the sight picture. Spend a couple minutes every flight practicing your visual ranging.
Once you can range visually, then you can adjust formation position laterally with small heading changes.
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Be sure your lead isn’t making things unnecessarily difficult for you by not flying tight numbers himself. Check the ACMI for his consistency, and if need be mention it during debrief. If he is good and honest, he’ll acknowledge he is part of your problem. You would be surprised how the easy the “best” can get it wrong.
So what you’re saying Malc, my flying is actually spot on as #2?
Harry (Formerly Amraam at Frugals etc.)
(I'm not currently active with ViperDrivers, but these guys are the best BMS school out there!)
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yes, and my flying as number 1 sucks….
Malc report to the administration offices !!
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So what you’re saying Malc, my flying is actually spot on as #2?
LOL! Indeed - I speak from experience here, I recall more than one occasion when my speed and heading altered as a result of paying too much attention to other tasks while leading. However, your flying…
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Be sure your lead isn’t making things unnecessarily difficult for you by not flying tight numbers himself. Check the ACMI for his consistency, and if need be mention it during debrief. If he is good and honest, he’ll acknowledge he is part of your problem. You would be surprised how the easy the “best” can get it wrong.
This is a key note here. My experience with a lot of Leads in BMS MP is that they forget they have to actually “lead” the flight. It’s easy to get involved with something else and look down to realize your cruise speed crept up to 380 knots when you briefed 350, or your altitude crept up 500-700 ft. Or forget that 1.5nm is a much bigger arc for the outboard Wingman to make his turn. That last one is a big one, for some reason people think you need to fly to within .5nm of the steer point then make 6G turns to stay on track with your flight plan, this is incorrect. Turns should be started early and, and made in a smooth manner so you roll out more or less on track with your flight plan. This allows the entire flight to make the turns much cleaner and neater, without the outboard members having to burn excessive fuel to get back in formation.
It’s also important to “fly the lead” and not the HUD. Depending on how spread the formation is, you won’t be able to fly your pipper to the steer point, particularly as you get closer to it. Formations which don’t necessarily allow constant visual gauging (Such as 1.5nm abreast formation) should be flown by the lead, with heading and speed instructions for the wingmen. AA Tacan should always be used, not just as a crutch or a fallback. It’s used IRL, in conjunction with IDM.
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Yeah, my DCS and BMS resolutions are all the same - both 1920x1080 iirc.
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Keep in mind that almost none of us are real-life professional Vipers. Flight lead’s consistency is the most critical aspect of a package’s formation integrity, and very few of us who fly lead fly appropriately ‘tight’. Outside the FLoT, good leads get on their steerpoint lines and hit the auto-pilot to stabilize and get tight as soon and and often as possible. For the lead pilot… steady, gradual, and consistent.
