Newbie, advices for choosing what controls to put on HOTAS.
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(To mods: I posted this here because I’m asking for general advices, but if the joystick subforum is a more appropriate place, then you can move it there.)
Good day everyone,
I’m a newbie with Falcon BMS. After learning and training about the aircraft, systems and basic maneuvers, I just began practicing the AG combat training missions.
So I think this is the right time to decide the set up for my hotas controls. Using the “button shifting” capability, I can assign a total of 27 functions to my joystick buttons (1 pinky/shift button + 13 direct + 13 shifted), vs a total of 41 functions for the real HOTAS.
So I have to choose 13 functions for direct buttons (the ones most used, or quickly needed), 13 functions for shifted buttons, and leave 14 functions for the keyboard (the less frequently used).
Here are the 27 functions I’m considering for HOTAS:
Radar cursor (4 buttons)
TMS right, up, down (3 buttons)
DMS (4 buttons) (cycles MFD/SOI)
CMS (4 buttons) (ECM/chaff/flares)
Weapon release
First trigger detent (laser)
Second trigger detent (guns)
Missile step (steps stations/missiles/bombing mode)
Pinky switch (selects norm/exp/DBS/wide/narrow/etc. for FCR/TGP/HSD)
Paddle switch (autopilot override)
COMM left and right (A/A-A/G datalink)
Antenna Elevation up/down
Uncage (AIM9 cage/uncage)
Cursor enable (missiles bore/slave, AGM65 submodes).And here are the 14 functions I’m leaving out:
Pitch/roll trim
Left TMS (cycles AGM65 HOC/COH)
DGFT/MSL/MASTER MODE OVRD
COMM up and down (VHF/UHF mic)
MAN RNG (ground radar gain)
Speedbrakes open/closeSo, my request for all of you with more combat experience:
.) Is there any of the left out functions that I should put on HOTAS instead (and viceversa)?
.) What are the 13 most used/essential functions that I should put to direct (unshifted) buttons? Remember that things like cursor, DMS, CMS, etc. count as 4 buttons.
Thank you all!
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Welcome to BMS!!
Check out the TO-BMS1F-16CM-1.PDF (aka the Dash-1) under Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals and refer to p.27 (throttle) and p.54 (stick) to see what controls are on the HOTAS. You’d want those as priority, with stick controls as top priority.
As for your list, you’d want your TMS, DGFT/MRM, Comms and Speedbrake on and maybe remove 1st Trigger Detent, Paddle (Autopilot), and Uncage. You may also want to temporarily remove the 2nd Trigger Detent for now if you’re practicing A-G.
Might be a good idea to post your HOTAS make and model… have you checked if anyone has made a profile for your HOTAS?
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For what it’s worth, from a newbie who asked himself the same question…
If your short on buttons i’d consider removing
- Radar cursors - Sure they’re very important, but you can put them on keyboard cursor keys.
- DMS: Only keep DMS Down.
- CMS: Only keep Up, Left; Keep Down only if you’re using SEMI/AUTO modes.
- COMM left and right. I need them only for setting up data link once per flight?
- Second trigger detent (guns) - I know it’s blasphemy, but never had to use guns in campaign missions so far…
But i’ll probably want to have
- Speedbrakes (toggle)
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(To mods: I posted this here because I’m asking for general advices, but if the joystick subforum is a more appropriate place, then you can move it there.)
Good day everyone,
I’m a newbie with Falcon BMS. After learning and training about the aircraft, systems and basic maneuvers, I just began practicing the AG combat training missions.
So I think this is the right time to decide the set up for my hotas controls. Using the “button shifting” capability, I can assign a total of 27 functions to my joystick buttons (1 pinky/shift button + 13 direct + 13 shifted), vs a total of 41 functions for the real HOTAS.
So I have to choose 13 functions for direct buttons (the ones most used, or quickly needed), 13 functions for shifted buttons, and leave 14 functions for the keyboard (the less frequently used).
Here are the 27 functions I’m considering for HOTAS:
Radar cursor (4 buttons)
TMS right, up, down (3 buttons)
DMS (4 buttons) (cycles MFD/SOI)
CMS (4 buttons) (ECM/chaff/flares)
Weapon release
First trigger detent (laser)
Second trigger detent (guns)
Missile step (steps stations/missiles/bombing mode)
Pinky switch (selects norm/exp/DBS/wide/narrow/etc. for FCR/TGP/HSD)
Paddle switch (autopilot override)
COMM left and right (A/A-A/G datalink)
Antenna Elevation up/down
Uncage (AIM9 cage/uncage)
Cursor enable (missiles bore/slave, AGM65 submodes).And here are the 14 functions I’m leaving out:
Pitch/roll trim
Left TMS (cycles AGM65 HOC/COH)
DGFT/MSL/MASTER MODE OVRD
COMM up and down (VHF/UHF mic)
MAN RNG (ground radar gain)
Speedbrakes open/closeSo, my request for all of you with more combat experience:
.) Is there any of the left out functions that I should put on HOTAS instead (and viceversa)?
.) What are the 13 most used/essential functions that I should put to direct (unshifted) buttons? Remember that things like cursor, DMS, CMS, etc. count as 4 buttons.
Thank you all!
For what it’s worth, from a newbie who asked himself the same question…
If your short on buttons i’d consider removing
- Radar cursors - Sure they’re very important, but you can put them on keyboard cursor keys.
- DMS: Only keep DMS Down.
- CMS: Only keep Up, Left; Keep Down only if you’re using SEMI/AUTO modes.
- COMM left and right. I need them only for setting up data link once per flight?
- Second trigger detent (guns) - I know it’s blasphemy, but never had to use guns in campaign missions so far…
But i’ll probably want to have
- Speedbrakes (toggle)
Comm switch is important when you make the switch to MP, but for now you can do without. But the DL In/OUT are good to keep. Read the manual a bit and you’ll understand why, but it goes back to target management. AP Override can definitely go. It’s nice, but not in any way required… I know, I know and I struggled with it too, but in the end it isn’t worth it if you need the button for something else–it also makes a very nice “Shifter” for your DX shift, however it is possible to set the minimum hold timing on the DX shift, so you can use another button that normally wouldn’t be held. DMS is nice to have both UP and DOWN, but for now you can probably ditch L/R for the space. CMS should be the full hat, especially for new guys, because effectively managing CMS in MAN mode is more than most new guys can do… and even plenty of old hats (Effectively being the key word there) have a hard time with it
Uncage is probably one you can do without, at least for now. It becomes a little more important in dog fights, particularly in a FvF MP setting. But generally speaking, against the AI, you won’t lose anything by taking your hand off the throttle for a half second to hit the key. Really, for all of these, that’s how you need to approach it–what can I get away with pushing to the keyboard that won’t be “critical” in a high stress situation, like dodging missiles, dogfighting, etc… Target management and CMS are high on the priority list to keep, so I disagree with pushing the Cursor keys to the keyboard. TGP control, slew of the seeker for Aim-9, radar… all kind of important in combat environments. Speed brakes might be a little more important than you think too, but it really depends on your flying style. It’s perfectly do-able to use them as Open/Closed only, but good pilots know they can use a little brake here and a little brake there to help control your speed in a turn, make AR easier, approaches, etc… The same can be said of Trim… It can definitely be a good thing–especially if you don’t drop your stores in pairs…HINT HINT for the upcoming AG training. However, since you’re short on button space, you can probably do without both. Based on your list, the only thing you might want to “really” consider changing is the DF/MRM switch, once you start doing AA stuff. And substituting the AP Paddle for something that might be a little more useful such as toggling the speed brakes-- or open them using unshifted, close them using shifted, that way you can get the fine control instead of 0% OR 100%.
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without Uncage, how can you drop the cover of the AGM-65 sensor?
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without Uncage, how can you drop the cover of the AGM-65 sensor?
Bind it to a keyboard key, it’s not needed on the hotas I meant. That’s not something that would be detrimental to your flight if you had to remove your hand from the throttle to do it.
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Thanks all for the advices so far.
I don’t have a real HOTAS setup, just a Sidewinder FF2, but thanks to “button shifting”, I can use a total of 27 buttons, that should be enough.
Also, keep in mind that I don’t plan to go multiplayer (I’m sure it’s another new level of immersion, but it would take too much of my available time
).Keep advices coming!
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Bind it to a keyboard key, it’s not needed on the hotas I meant. That’s not something that would be detrimental to your flight if you had to remove your hand from the throttle to do it.
Uncage is very important. There is a reason why F-16 designers put it on HOTAS. It is not about Mavericks. You need it for AIM-9. IIRC on some variants you gonna need this to fire AIM-120 in bore mode.
If you use AIM-9X with HMCS uncage MUST be on HOTAS! -
Also, keep in mind that I don’t plan to go multiplayer (I’m sure it’s another new level of immersion, but it would take too much of my available time
).Doesn’t matter. All you’d really need for MP is a push-to-talk button and if you map that to a MIC switch, you’re good.
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If you use AIM-9X with HMCS uncage MUST be on HOTAS!
Can you elaborate? I’ve been using AIM-9X with HMCS just fine without ever uncaging. What do i miss?!
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Firing caged sidewinders is not a proper way to do it. Uncaged missile tracks target in its own. Caged sidewinders can be fired however it is not recommended as when you move your head a bit you gonna loose track and accidentally fire missile without tracking. Caged missile starts tracking target when fired, uncaged tracks target and allows you to verify tracked target before launch. You can use TD mode which uncages missile automatically, however you may need to recage it manually when you want to change target.
Doesn’t matter. All you’d really need for MP is a push-to-talk button and if you map that to a MIC switch, you’re good.
You need 2 PTT buttons, one for UHF and another one for VHF.
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Welcome to BMS!
How are you going to be handling looking around? That might require a hat to itself. I think you’ve got most of what you need. I’d agree that IFF IN/OUT is not necessary to bind - save those buttons for Uncage or Speedbrake In/Out. As long as you configure your laser appropriately in the DED, you shouldn’t have to manually laze very often - that button might have a better use. I’d definitely want to keep guns bound to the stick - it would be really frustrating to get the bandit lined up and then miss because you had to glance at the keyboard. I’d bind CMS Slap Switch to the stick unshifted. Assign CM program 6 to 1 chaff and 1 flare. That gives you an easy way to rapidly dispense some countermeasures. The rest of CMS should be either shifted or on the keyboard. You rarely have to rapidly turn on or off ECM. I would skip the paddle switch as well - it’s nice to have, but not really necessary until you’re doing low-level TFR flights. I’d bind that to wheel brakes instead, so you can easily stand on your brakes while you’re running the engine up at takeoff, and keep your hand on the stick when landing.
If you really get bitten by the bug, you can upgrade to a more fully-featured HOTAS.
Falcon allows you to make one the pinky button work as a shift. It acts as the pinky button if you press and release quickly, but as a shift button if you press and hold it down, so that may free up an additional button for use.-Rabbit
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Firing caged sidewinders is not a proper way to do it. Uncaged missile tracks target in its own. Caged sidewinders can be fired however it is not recommended as when you move your head a bit you gonna loose track and accidentally fire missile without tracking. Caged missile starts tracking target when fired, uncaged tracks target and allows you to verify tracked target before launch. You can use TD mode which uncages missile automatically, however you may need to recage it manually when you want to change target.
You need 2 PTT buttons, one for UHF and another one for VHF.
This doesn’t make it a “must” in my opinion though. You can uncage and cage from the keyboard. And this ONLY applies to a very specific situation of dog fights. How often do you find yourself in a situation where you’re looking outside the HUD view, in a hot turning fight switching targets so rapidly that you need to constantly switch between cage/uncage? Not enough to make it an issue that you couldn’t reach over with a quick hand and cycle it. I’ve been flying this sim for years, had countless dogfights in SP and MP, and I’ve always used the keyboard without problems. Given their list of things, what would you rather sacrifice for this specific binding?
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Thanks to you too Rabbit, very good advices!
How are you going to be handling looking around? That might require a hat to itself.
I’m gonna probably use FreeTrack (similar to TrackIR).
I would skip the paddle switch as well - it’s nice to have, but not really necessary until you’re doing low-level TFR flights. I’d bind that to wheel brakes instead, so you can easily stand on your brakes while you’re running the engine up at takeoff, and keep your hand on the stick when landing.
I have rudder pedals (with wheelbrakes). So maybe I will keep the paddle switch, since I like to use the autopilot and I find the AP override very useful.
Falcon allows you to make one the pinky button work as a shift. It acts as the pinky button if you press and release quickly, but as a shift button if you press and hold it down, so that may free up an additional button for use.
Yes I know, it’s already included in the 27 buttons count.
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DGFT/MSL/MASTER MODE OVRD
I made that mistake of not using them for a very long while
and i must say since I started using these modes, my efficiency became much betterin the case of an AG mission:
Whenever you’re past fence in, you always are in MRM mode, ready for BVR
You set your AG system up before fence in. Then at fence in you go AG mode then directly MRM mode
ingress looking out for red air and at IP, or whenever the brief call for it, switch back to AG simply by centring the MRM mode switch
do your AG task and the moment your AG bomb is off, toggle back to MRM and be ready for AA
Even if you do multiple AG pass, i always toggle back MRM after bomb drop until i reset my AG passAnother reason to have DGFT mode is to get access to the gun easily.
Have a BVR turning sour and ending in a dogfight, you may need your gun. How do you set your gun in AA mode? fiddling with the SMS page and MFD button? No way you’ll have time for thatIMHO, MRM and Dogfight mode MUST be on the HOTAS
By the way, you didn’t say which hotas you use?
I suppose it’s not a cougar, because the cougar can be programmed fully like the real thing, and that’s the best scenario imho -
You need 2 PTT buttons, one for UHF and another one for VHF.
Not unless flying in a very big group…
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no Ice, always
UHF= ATC, awacs, guys in other flight (leads) etc etc
VHF= guys in your flightSo even with 2 guys in MP, you need both
If you want to do things the right way. If not one would say that Teamspeak is enough - you don’t need IVC -
@Red:
By the way, you didn’t say which hotas you use?
I suppose it’s not a cougar, because the cougar can be programmed fully like the real thing, and that’s the best scenario imhoI can’t afford a full HOTAS setup, I use a Sidewinder FF2, but it gives me a total of 27 buttons with the button-shifting function.
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got it Murmur
My suggestion then:
You need;
Radar cursor (4 buttons)
TMS right, up, down (3 buttons)
DMS (4 buttons) (cycles MFD/SOI)
CMS (4 buttons) (ECM/chaff/flares)
Weapon release
Second trigger detent (guns)
Missile step (steps stations/missiles/bombing mode)
Antenna Elevation up/down
DGFT/MSL/MASTER MODE OVRD
Speedbrakes open/closeYou don’t need:
First trigger detent (laser) (use auto lase and increase your lasing time)
Pinky switch (selects norm/exp/DBS/wide/narrow/etc. for FCR/TGP/HSD) easily done on TGP (personnaly I hardly use the pinky. most of my zooms are done on the Mfds)
Paddle switch (autopilot override) no need unless you intend to fly a lot on AP. I hardly override it until I fly TFR
COMM left and right (A/A-A/G datalink) not needed unless you fly MP
Uncage (AIM9 cage/uncage) as said above; keyboard will do fine. Worst case you fire caged. Harder to keep track but if you know it easily avoidable
Cursor enable (missiles bore/slave, AGM65 submodes). same as abobe. Keyboard will do
Pitch/roll trim
Left TMS (cycles AGM65 HOC/COH)
COMM up and down (VHF/UHF mic)
MAN RNG (ground radar gain)Whatever you do, you will have to compromise so in the end, experience matters. try and see what works best for you according to your style of flying and keep changing it until you’re satisfied
Hope that helps -
This doesn’t make it a “must” in my opinion though. You can uncage and cage from the keyboard. And this ONLY applies to a very specific situation of dog fights. How often do you find yourself in a situation where you’re looking outside the HUD view, in a hot turning fight switching targets so rapidly that you need to constantly switch between cage/uncage? Not enough to make it an issue that you couldn’t reach over with a quick hand and cycle it. I’ve been flying this sim for years, had countless dogfights in SP and MP, and I’ve always used the keyboard without problems. Given their list of things, what would you rather sacrifice for this specific binding?
It is very hard to do without in my case. Uncaged on keyboard would require me to have 3 hands, at least in dgft. It can also be a problem when firing 120s in maddog mode where you may need to hold down uncage and the button that switches from slave to bore (pinky?). Some variants of f-16 has momentary slave/bore switching function instead of latched.
I personally use X-52 pro with shifted keys so I can afford to bind most of the real HOTAS functions.
