Request For Community Programmers

[Arty]

Now let’s ask the community who is willing to create a rock solid, super trooper, super wow and stable User Interface for this application?
[h=2][BMS Tool] F4 3D Database Builder - v4.8[/h]
As I understand it, it will be a command line injector - executor and it will wait for what ever results this app returns.
It will maybe need some file browsers to select files and text editors to provide new names ans selectors (radio buttons - combo boxes etc) to select the various options and parameters this executable has.
Maybe set some default folders…
Maybe initiate the new ogglod to view a model…

For sure this would be nice till Mortesil is done with the new tool.

How about it guys?

[Guest]

I don’t feel a need for a GUI, but that’s just me.

[Blu3wolf]

Doesnt seem like a lot of work to make a wrapper GUI for it, but then it doesnt seem like there would be a whole lot of need for one, either…

@Switch: Given that the tool is copyrighted, is there any limits on its distribution? The convenient way to make such a wrapper would be to include the .exe in the download for the wrapper, but that requires consent of copyright holders (regards redistribution).

[Guest]

Copyright/Legal/Redistribution stuff is alien to me, can’t answer without saying possible gargage.

But common, really, what does it need a GUI for… We have been using this tool for like 10-15 years and never felt the need for it.

[Arty]

Looking at the PDF and using for a few minutes the tool, I believe it’s vastly in a need of a UI like yesterday.

Grouping and organizing the errors also is way much helpful than a raw export of a txt file where you have to dig from 65.000+ lines the focus areas.

Also may I ask: While doing the export command it was saying that it was changing the Radius in many thousands of LOD’s…
It was changing what? The values in the actual used file or something else?
Also the BMP file… imagine how many thousand times it will be created and renamed… open photoshop or whatever, create it, save it as, find the correct folder… reinventing the wheel xxxx times.

Pickup this lod place it there rename it create parent rename add those values open notepad xxxxxxxx times… use file explorer xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx times.

the xxx means the sum up of all users that will use it and the total usage from all of them…

Tool looks awesome regardless it needs a UI or not.

[Arty]

@Switch:

Copyright/Legal/Redistribution stuff is alien to me, can’t answer without saying possible gargage.

But common, really, what does it need a GUI for… We have been using this tool for like 10-15 years and never felt the need for it.

If and when done a proper UI just time your self before and after on the exact task. I’m sure u will result in xxxx models that would be done more or xxxx hours of rest or engagement to other areas.

[Blu3wolf]

Well Arty, help me out here. Im not a pro programmer, but Im considering having a go at making a simple wrapper GUI for it - gives me an excuse to practice my limited skills.

What would help from you (or anyone else) would be information on workflow - detailing what you want out of a GUI, especially in regards to what you think are shortfalls in the CLI tool.

It sounds like you want it to replace the windows file explorer for a lot of functions, so Im a little confused. Making a simple GUI to handle the stuff like extracting the DB or building a new one, thats easy stuff. So what else does it need to do?

@Switch:

Copyright/Legal/Redistribution stuff is alien to me, can’t answer without saying possible gargage.

But common, really, what does it need a GUI for… We have been using this tool for like 10-15 years and never felt the need for it.

Yeah, roger that. Understood on both counts. Simple question you may be able to answer, though: Can I mirror that tool for you at my site, falcon.blu3wolf.com?

[Blu3wolf]

This post is deleted!

[Guest]

@Arty:

Grouping and organizing the errors also is way much helpful than a raw export of a txt file where you have to dig from 65.000+ lines the focus areas.

F3, look for ***. Done.

@Arty:

Also may I ask: While doing the export command it was saying that it was changing the Radius in many thousands of LOD’s…
It was changing what? The values in the actual used file or something else?

It corrects the parent radius while extracting the 3DDB, so this makes it to the exported DAT obviously.

@Arty:

Also the BMP file… imagine how many thousand times it will be created and renamed… open photoshop or whatever, create it, save it as, find the correct folder… reinventing the wheel xxxx times.

What the hell are you talking about? It is created once and you’re done with it…

Revision: 37
Author: switch
Date: 12:50:18, 25 January 2008
Message:
BMS 4.9 extracted 3D Database Part 7
* Textures folder : placeholder 6026.bmp
----
Added : /3DDB/Textures/6026.bmp

It’s never been recreated since, just renamed.

@Arty:

Pickup this lod place it there rename it create parent rename add those values open notepad xxxxxxxx times…. use file explorer xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx times.

the xxx means the sum up of all users that will use it and the total usage from all of them…

Ok now, I’m lost… Can you try the same in English?

[Arty]

@Switch:

F3, look for ***. Done.

yeap 90+ … ouch…

What the hell are you talking about? It is created once and you’re done with it…

How many users will create it just once?

I have 4-5 different folders working on different things so another 4-5 times and all the time I must go look at largest number and rename… An exe could do it for u and auto suggest or auto create it silently in the background.

Revision: 37
Author: switch
Date: 12:50:18, 25 January 2008
Message:
BMS 4.9 extracted 3D Database Part 7
* Textures folder : placeholder 6026.bmp
----
Added : /3DDB/Textures/6026.bmp

It’s never been recreated since, just renamed.

can you recall how many times it was renamed?
I would count at least one minute or half a minute for each rename.

how much time would take for a coder to code it?

Ok now, I’m lost… Can you try the same in English?

A UI could manipulate and other things. like transfer lods. a txt editor to create the parent files and etc.

I know all small actions and there are tools to perform them but for one simple task you will have to use 3-5 different programs. Open this minimize this browse on this write on this, save as browse again all the way to the correct folder… and again , and again, and again, and again, and again…
Maybe it’s seconds or few minutes each time that you loose, but when you do it for years all those sum up to a considerable amount of time.
That’s what the hell I’m talking about… :lol:

[Blu3wolf]

I think you want to write a batch file rather than code up a program that can solve the general case. Its almost never the case that using one coverall program is better than using a variety of specialised programs, at least in my experience.

Also I suggest using keyboard shortcuts, it should not take 30 seconds to rename a file!

Anyway… Im not so sure that you just want a simple wrapper UI, and thats about all Id be capable of making, so perhaps Im not needed for this one.

[Arty]

@Blu3wolf:

Well Arty, help me out here. Im not a pro programmer, but Im considering having a go at making a simple wrapper GUI for it - gives me an excuse to practice my limited skills.

What would help from you (or anyone else) would be information on workflow - detailing what you want out of a GUI, especially in regards to what you think are shortfalls in the CLI tool.

It sounds like you want it to replace the windows file explorer for a lot of functions, so Im a little confused. Making a simple GUI to handle the stuff like extracting the DB or building a new one, thats easy stuff. So what else does it need to do?

Yeah, roger that. Understood on both counts. Simple question you may be able to answer, though: Can I mirror that tool for you at my site, falcon.blu3wolf.com?

For starters all the options - commands from the PDF need selections. to add the arguments and execute the commands.
in some cases a txt is created. Grab it open it and show it to the user. Give him search and scroll.
in other cases txt files as dat iirc must be created.
default folder must be declared. U could auto read the base folder of falcon get all the theaters paths and save us from back and forth and remembering paths… example the UI selection of theater from Sakis Monster Terrain Editor application. Or Falcon Editor theater selection.

Autonaming and creating the needed bmp file and saving it to the correct folder.

maybe a tabular matrix display of the HeaderCheck.txt and others if exist. From there it would be nice to have a selection and display for example only critical errors or possible parent dimension errors.
just the error line doesn’t help I must see and the parent number. Now I fixed the damn thing… a button to select the correct lod and replace the wrong one, or maybe the command to update the thing.

maybe some tickmarks for helper notepad for the user like ok I fixed this this and this and I have to fix that that and that tommorow, now I’m tired so nice app please keep record of the status I am so not to create a new excel file or write in the mess of the 65000 lines of the HeaderCheck.txt file and then re search for my comments to spot where I am and what I have to do…

Open the LOD (browse, select or double click or filter by typing ?) with the new ogglod.

Just a few I could come up for now…

[Blu3wolf]

@Arty:

For starters all the options - commands from the PDF need selections. to add the arguments and execute the commands.
in some cases a txt is created. Grab it open it and show it to the user. Give him search and scroll.
in other cases txt files as dat iirc must be created.
default folder must be declared. U could auto read the base folder of falcon get all the theaters paths and save us from back and forth and remembering paths… example the UI selection of theater from Sakis Monster Terrain Editor application. Or Falcon Editor theater selection.

Autonaming and creating the needed bmp file and saving it to the correct folder.

maybe a tabular matrix display of the HeaderCheck.txt and others if exist. From there it would be nice to have a selection and display for example only critical errors or possible parent dimension errors.
just the error line doesn’t help I must see and the parent number. Now I fixed the damn thing… a button to select the correct lod and replace the wrong one, or maybe the command to update the thing.

maybe some tickmarks for helper notepad for the user like ok I fixed this this and this and I have to fix that that and that tommorow, now I’m tired so nice app please keep record of the status I am so not to create a new excel file or write in the mess of the 65000 lines of the HeaderCheck.txt file and then re search for my comments to spot where I am and what I have to do…

Open the LOD (browse, select or double click or filter by typing ?) with the new ogglod.

Just a few I could come up for now…

regarding the tickmarks and text editor stuff, you would be far better off installing notepad++ and making it the default editor for text files… or an equivalent, UltraEdit for example. Might be feasible to preview the output, though.

Default theater setting would probably frustrate you no end, because unless I miss my guess, most theater devs swap back and forth between multiple folders, no? Wouldnt you be better off having a simple selection window where you pick from a list of recently used folders?

Creating a default BMP file is trivial.

Error handling I guess I would need to better understand the errors you can get and what that means… basically, Id need to know what the normal error handling workflow is like currently, and what it should look like after using the GUI.

[MorteSil]

My current project has full 3D DB management embedded, in a GUI.

Add/Remove Models
import/export
Find/remove unused LODs
Re-assign textures
Parent/CT manipulation
Model editing
Slot/Hard Point editing
Etc…

All wrapped in the current program.

In addition you can (Or will be able to) change everything in the AFM/DAT files in a SAFE manner, IE: the GUI presents the data and saves it in the correct format. And you can adjust the CT DB without having to switch programs. Sorry for the lack of recent updates on it, but it IS progressing.

EDIT: Disregard the Red Colored models. I’m having to code my own DDS converter since I’m not using DX.

[Arty]

@Blu3wolf:

regarding the tickmarks and text editor stuff, you would be far better off installing notepad++ and making it the default editor for text files… or an equivalent, UltraEdit for example. Might be feasible to preview the output, though.

I have it already, I use it for years. takes 3-5 secs to open it each time.

Default theater setting would probably frustrate you no end, because unless I miss my guess, most theater devs swap back and forth between multiple folders, no? Wouldnt you be better off having a simple selection window where you pick from a list of recently used folders?

Creating a default BMP file is trivial.

Not for all. Some have never used a photo program in their life. so he will loose some xx minutes to accomplish such. go to youtube search view the content do it. Or find a text result from a google search and read it. Have it open whilw having the app open to see step by step what to do. For one user might be 5 minutes but for 50 new users of the app will be 4 hours in total, lost fighting with the tool only.
Renaming it though about xxx times will take him about, just for that with 30" each time for 150 times 75 minutes in total.

Error handling I guess I would need to better understand the errors you can get and what that means… basically, Id need to know what the normal error handling workflow is like currently, and what it should look like after using the GUI.

here u are:

Search for *** for errors

Search for +++ for possible parent dimension errors

Version 50884608
Colors 1596
DarkColors 669

MaxLODSize 100192
nLOD 10126
             UserCnt IOPendi Flags    RootPtr  Position Length
LOD[      0]       0       0        0        0       0       0
LOD[      1]       0       0        0        0 4554260       0
..
..
LOD[  10123]       0       0        0        0 1639983244       0
LOD[  10124]       0       0        0        0 1683651068       0
LOD[  10125]       0       0        0        0 1640861768       0

Parent Records 3789

Parent[     0]
  Dimensions: R:0.100000 -X:0.000000 +X:0.100000 -Y:0.000000 +Y:0.100000 -Z:0.000000 +Z:0.000000 
  Texture Sets         1
  Dynamic Vectors      0
  LODs:   1  Switchs:   0  DOFs:   0  Slots:   0  
  Parent's LODs
    #  0 - LOD ID:   1 - Distance:600000.000000

Parent[     1]
  Dimensions: R:33.750000 -X:-20.268000 +X:1.818000 -Y:-9.359003 +Y:9.359003 -Z:-7.566937 +Z:3.513991 
  Texture Sets         1
  Dynamic Vectors      0
  LODs:   1  Switchs: 255  DOFs: 255  Slots:   0  
  Parent's LODs
    #  0 - LOD ID:   0 - Distance:600000.000000
      +++ LOD DIMENSIONS R:5.191999 -X:-3.622653 +X:2.370382 -Y:-1.736379 +Y:1.765544 -Z:0.000000 +Z:3.273543

Parent[     2]
  Dimensions: R:33.779999 -X:-20.268000 +X:1.818000 -Y:-9.359003 +Y:9.359003 -Z:-7.566937 +Z:3.513991 
  Texture Sets         1
  Dynamic Vectors      0
  LODs:   1  Switchs: 255  DOFs: 255  Slots:   0  
  Parent's LODs
    #  0 - LOD ID:  82 - Distance:600000.000000
      +++ LOD DIMENSIONS R:8.489975 -X:-7.462452 +X:4.029891 -Y:-2.350704 +Y:2.451648 -Z:-1.126067 +Z:3.221942

Parent[     3]
  Dimensions: R:33.779999 -X:-20.268000 +X:1.818000 -Y:-9.359003 +Y:9.359003 -Z:-7.566937 +Z:3.513991 
  Texture Sets         1
  Dynamic Vectors      0
  LODs:   1  Switchs: 255  DOFs: 255  Slots:   0  
  Parent's LODs
    #  0 - LOD ID: 188 - Distance:600000.000000
      +++ LOD DIMENSIONS R:8.499245 -X:-7.462461 +X:4.295378 -Y:-2.138603 +Y:1.996961 -Z:-1.018499 +Z:3.460523

..
..
..
..
..

Parent[  3788]
  Dimensions: R:12.421468 -X:-4.803676 +X:7.452881 -Y:-2.187887 +Y:2.187887 -Z:-2.330657 +Z:0.010306 
  Texture Sets         1
  Dynamic Vectors      0
  LODs:   2  Switchs:   0  DOFs:   0  Slots:   0  
  Parent's LODs
    #  0 - LOD ID:10126 - Distance:5000.000000
      *** Parent references a LOD that exceeds the LOD database
    #  1 - LOD ID:10126 - Distance:10000.000000
      *** Parent references a LOD that exceeds the LOD database

This is an example of few lines of the 65.286 lines.

Guys I have fought the Falcon monster and still fighting it and will continue doing it for years.

This doesn’t mean we all must loose time and all reinvent the wheel each time.

Yeap tools are super great they help us achieve the goal which is the important thing. Beside the tools we must spend time and on creation and testing. The tedious repetitive actions from coders can be easily manipulated and ease the load and experience.

Using at the same time many many apps for one task is tiring and troublesome specially for ppl with just one monitor.

It’s just a kind polite suggestion in case a coder from the Community want’s to help on this. But don’t tell me you don’t actually loose time on this or in total if u add each user’s micro time loss it’s not a considerable amount.

[Blu3wolf]

I could have been clearer there, I guess. I meant to say that having a GUI create a placeholder BMP automatically is not a big deal and easy to do.

Regards notepad++, the trick is to not close it! leave it open, like all the other tools you switch between.

I might have a go at making a simple wrapper anyway, for my own amusement/learning. It sounds like it will be mooted anyway in short order when MorteSil’s much anticipated program is released.

I dont know whether Ill be able to reinvent the wheel for it, though. Id say implementing a text editor into it would definitely be outside the scope of that little programming practice.

[Guest]

@Blu3wolf:

@Switch: Given that the tool is copyrighted, is there any limits on its distribution? The convenient way to make such a wrapper would be to include the .exe in the download for the wrapper, but that requires consent of copyright holders (regards redistribution).

So more info about that… As long as whoever does this makes it clear where the exe comes from, where to find the original one and gives us credit, that whoever can do whatever he wants

So have fun programming or finding someone who can, because it is definitely not going to be me :). My programming skills are not that good

[Blu3wolf]

Nor mine, but it should be an interesting exercise nonetheless. Im going to make a mess with WPF, seeing as I havent found sufficient excuse before. Had a bit of a play so far, although all I have done so far is a select folder dialog: https://github.com/Blu3wolf/3DDBBuilderGUI

Readme includes credit though.

[Eghi]

@Blu3wolf:

Nor mine, but it should be an interesting exercise nonetheless. Im going to make a mess with WPF, seeing as I havent found sufficient excuse before. Had a bit of a play so far, although all I have done so far is a select folder dialog: https://github.com/Blu3wolf/3DDBBuilderGUI

Readme includes credit though.

Creating a “source” is misleading. Everything you need Switch has given you here.

[MorteSil]

@Blu3wolf:

Nor mine, but it should be an interesting exercise nonetheless. Im going to make a mess with WPF, seeing as I havent found sufficient excuse before. Had a bit of a play so far, although all I have done so far is a select folder dialog: https://github.com/Blu3wolf/3DDBBuilderGUI

Readme includes credit though.

Let me know if you need some help. At first glance the “code” portion is only a couple lines. You just have to build the options string based on GUI components.