Incoming missile have no effect on Chaff and Flare

[JUSOCOM]

No matter what I do, it does seem to be impossible to escape from the incoming missile within their effective range especially R-73 Archer (AA-11) and R-77 Adder (AA-12)

I have no idea how could I defeated those missile. They are very smart and reject all of my countermeasure.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated.

[Halcyon]

This might help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/falconbms/comments/1xybue/some_bvr_tipstricks/

[Axe]

If missile is fired from close in, make the missile go faster.
If missile is fired from far, make the missile go slower.

This is my rule of thumb.

[Dee-Jay]

Decoys are not magical. Sometimes it dosen’t work.

[Red Dog]

Decoys are not magical. Sometimes it dosen’t work.

this is the best answer ever in beta testing a flight simulation software
and it’s been used thousand times in BMS
it kinda justify bugs a lot

[Dee-Jay]

Yep … I just don’t want to give more informations about the future 4.34 … Lets keep the surprise.

[Ahmed]

@Dee-Jay:

the future 4.34

Lately I’m seeing that magic number mentioned a lot, must be good

[Dee-Jay]

Do not expect big effects from chaff on AA-12/AIM-120. To be efficient, a chaff has to be “optimized” for the frequency used by the radar system. IRL you my have chaff optimized for such freq but won’t be efficient on the other guidance system. It is not possible to be 100% in all the systems spectrum … It is all about compromises … Better deny the fire rather than curing it. A chaff (EM decoy) is not made to defeat a missile like a flare for IR seekers, it is made to disturb/deny acquisition and tracking.

There are a lot of discussions about it on the forum. May I suggest to use the search button.

[Malc]

@Ahmed:

Lately I’m seeing that magic number mentioned a lot, must be good

It is inevitable… 4.32 became 4.33 which is destined to become 4.34 - unless they really surprise us with 5.0!? Now how cool would that be!

[Axe]

@JUSOCOM:

No matter what I do, it does seem to be impossible to escape from the incoming missile within their effective range especially R-73 Archer (AA-11) and R-77 Adder (AA-12)

I have no idea how could I defeated those missile. They are very smart and reject all of my countermeasure.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated.

JUSOCOM, was the controlling idea of your question how you can defeat the missile (as I took it) or was it how to get the chaff and flare to defeat the missile?

I mean you did say ‘no matter what I do’.

[l3crusader]

@Malc:

It is inevitable… 4.32 became 4.33 which is destined to become 4.34 - unless they really surprise us with 5.0!? Now how cool would that be!

No matter what is inside the next release, it should have version number 73.42, just to fuel those discussions a bit more

[Malc]

@l3crusader:

No matter what is inside the next release, it should have version number 73.42, just to fuel those discussions a bit more

At this moment and time Cruz, 13 would be satisfactory!

PS - Apologies to OP for derailment.

[macieksoft]

In BMS chaff is rather ineffective against active radar guided missiles.
Flares are ineffective against late generation IR missiles that use late versions of eyeball seekers or FPA. R-73 has eyeball seeker with good IRCCM, same with AIM-9M.

I’d like to suggest you reading this: http://www.mediafire.com/file/nq6i1ja0ds9gqi4/Histoy+of+the+Electro-Optical+Guided+Missiles.pdf
It explains a lot about IR guided missiles, various generations and types of seekers, countermeasure vulnerability is also discussed.

To be efficient, a chaff has to be “optimized” for the frequency used by the radar system. IRL you my have chaff optimized for such freq but won’t be efficient on the other guidance system. It is not possible to be 100% in all the systems spectrum … It is all about compromises …

IRL you can always mix various types of chaff. If you have enough chaff capacity (like Sufa has) you can do it.

No matter what is inside the next release, it should have version number 73.42, just to fuel those discussions a bit more

No matters what is the version number, i want Link 16 (with SEAD datalink capability), IFF and precision engagement capable HTS

[Dee-Jay]

IRL you can always mix various types of chaff. If you have enough chaff capacity (like Sufa has) you can do it.

Depends on what you have to deal with and accuracy of your Intels and ELINT. Better than per-defined chaff cartridges, having a guillotine dynamically cutting the chaff in the right length in relation with real time detected threat is even better (M2000’s SPIRALE).

[molnibalage]

@Halcyon:

This might help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/falconbms/comments/1xybue/some_bvr_tipstricks/

ARHs in BMS4 are immune to chaff.
Many SR IR AAM have such seeker modeling values which make them immune to flares. AIM-9M and R-73 are like these…

[albs]

I experimented with trying to defeat MRM’s and so far all I have found is to put the missile at my 3 or 9 then split s and pull out at tree top level. Even that was a 50/50 to be honest. IR only defense against advanced ones I have seen is to shoot first.

[Axe]

I don’t like the split s 3/9 defense (ARH). It slows the missile down, and speeds it up. What for? Also hard to time the split. Don’t be impatient to defeat it, take time if you have the fuel. Fuel conservation mostly the key. Just my opinion, not sure you wanted it!

[Stevie]

…to make it bleed energy.

[Axe]

Yes, the direction change does bleed energy, but when you go low it gives energy back to the missile. Why do both? Why not change direction and climb or drag. That is all I’m sayin.

[Cik]

going down is almost always a good thing. drag intensifies but your maneuvering capability generally increases, because you can burn fuel while you are low and the missile generally burns out within 10s of launch or so.

AFAIK anyway any gravity assist the missile gets will be wiped out by increased drag pretty quickly correct me if i’m wrong here