Alignment issue

[Justice]

during ramp start i powered everything up in my normal order and once the alignment was ready i switched it to norm as usual but this time i had no flight path or steerpoints on my hsd. i checked for any faults with f-ack––no faults all sys ok!! thought i was going to have to abort but then i remembered that i had harms loaded originally until i switched them to blu’s and i didnt unload the hts pod so i fired up the HAD and even though i had a blank hsd, the HAD had the flightpath. still no steers but path was enough to get me where i needed to be…wondering if this is a bug or normal. if its normal then is it saf to assume the the HAD doesn’t rely on alignment for flight path which would then tell me to load HTS pod every flight just in case i get blank HSD in the future…

[Frederf]

I remember there was some weird bug where you try to access a chin hardpoint (5A/5B) MFD page without the power to that station. That might not be it but the interplay of requirements relating to chin hardpoints isn’t always correct and can have weird effects.

I have heard that flipping the alignment knob should be done AFTER the system power switches on the same panel. Make sure you do it in that order as well.

And lastly load DTC some time between systems on and operational use.

[Dee-Jay]

Make sure you do it in that order as well.

Yep.

And NEVER before having the MAIN GEN on-line (engine started)

[l3crusader]

I also had this once, accessing the HAD before full alignment gave me the flightpath on HAD but HSD and steerpoints in ICP were messed up.

Needs repeats with avionics powered before or after starting up ILS align, IMO.

[Shadow]

It happen at times for me allso, just reload your Data cartridge in pit.

Or did I miss something?

[Justice]

I do normally turn on the ILS online switch before the JSS started but it’s never been an issue before. So are you saying it’s okay to flip on all the switches but waiting till it’s powered everything is powered up and spooled up before I turn the knob to Norm position

[Shadow]

As far as I know most systems on the F-16 need to be initated on a power supply designed for the purpose, either ground power or main internal alternators.

So I usualy get the turbine spun up and power sw over to main first.

[Frederf]

There are great times to be creative flying the F-16, electrical system start order is not one of them. Get the mains online, apply power to the systems, and then begin to operate them and in that order and you shouldn’t have any problems. When in doubt consult the checklist. Turning the INS rotary out of the initial position is telling it to do an activity, hold off until you apply power to the related systems. You wouldn’t start your car with your accelerator pedal to the floor in gear. Give it the count of one to whirr to life and enjoy being alive before poking it to get to work. “Hitting the ground running” can be hard on and confusing to systems.

[Justice]

@Shadow:

As far as I know most systems on the F-16 need to be initated on a power supply designed for the purpose, either ground power or main internal alternators.

So I usualy get the turbine spun up and power sw over to main first.

might be dumb question but what does sw stand for?

[l3crusader]

@Justice:

might be dumb question but what does sw stand for?

Switch. Shadow meant the switch turning on/off the elec system, with 3 position : Off, Batt(ery) and Main

[Stubbies2003]

This one is a simple difference between the real aircraft and the sim. In the real aircraft you would do as is being suggested here. Have the electrical system/main gen online or external power on before flipping switches.

However since this isn’t the real aircraft and it hasn’t been coded to fault out on those switches prior to external power/main gen status I flip the main power switch to main power and turn on all the avionics, including INS to norm, prior to engine start every time. I have yet to have a problem because of it in the sim.

My order is like this. Main power switch to main power, air source/engine feed to norm, and JFS to start 2. While the engine is spooling up to the 20-25% range I am flipping all of the avionics switches on.

[Justice]

o ok

[Agave_Blue]

@Stubbies2003:

This one is a simple difference between the real aircraft and the sim. ……

You’re right. I do similarly … avionics switches to on as the engine spools from ~20% to idle (~75%?), and it’s never caused a problem … in the sim.

Someone else had a similar issue with regard to alignment and waypoints/flight path. IIRC it had to do with switching the align knob to Nav and back during the start/align sequence. Check here: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?14835-HSD-not-showing-steerpoints

[Justice]

this was the first time i have had this issue and just to be clear (or help narrow down the influencing factors for the ones workink to fugure this out), i was not online…just sp campaign. haven’t had the issu since and dont expect it. also hope this isn’t a facepalm moment but early on i found out i could turn on random failures in cfg file and did so but thats why i mentioned that the f-ack read normal. by the way is the f-ack and pfl(pilot fault list) the same thing and where does the mfd test page fall in all of this? sorry for the re-direct?is this considered hijack? sorry if so but can i hijack my own thread- is that even possible…? lol

[Stubbies2003]

@Justice:

this was the first time i have had this issue and just to be clear (or help narrow down the influencing factors for the ones workink to fugure this out), i was not online…just sp campaign.

SP or MP is a non factor here. The aircraft behaves the same either way.

@Justice:

by the way is the f-ack and pfl(pilot fault list) the same thing and where does the mfd test page fall in all of this?

the f-ack switch works directly with the PFL yes. They aren’t the SAME thing but are directly related. The f-ack is the switch, the PFL is the display where the faults go.

The MFD test page displays the MFL (maintenance fault list) and is more used by people like me for troubleshooting the aircraft.

[Frederf]

MFL FLT-1
12:10 083 FLCS reset for giggles
41:05 006 Stick monkey hurt your baby with G
62:01 110 What’s a flare?

What would realistically happen if you applied power to the INU with the alignment rotary switch in NORM or NAV? I would suspect the system would just get on with the alignment (NARF?)

[Stubbies2003]

@Frederf:

MFL FLT-1
12:10 083 FLCS reset for giggles
41:05 006 Stick monkey hurt your baby with G
62:01 110 What’s a flare?

What would realistically happen if you applied power to the INU with the alignment rotary switch in NORM or NAV? I would suspect the system would just get on with the alignment (NARF?)

You would drain the INS backup battery inducing an INS 029 MFL. thus creating a redball to replace the battery.

[Frederf]

Ah interesting. So the alignment rotary is “hot” even without main buses?

[Justice]

@Stubbies2003:

SP or MP is a non factor here. The aircraft behaves the same either way.
the f-ack switch works directly with the PFL yes. They aren’t the SAME thing but are directly related. The f-ack is the switch, the PFL is the display where the faults go.
The MFD test page displays the MFL (maintenance fault list) and is more used by people like me for troubleshooting the aircraft.

what do you mean “people like you” do you work irl on jets or…? andanother thing i have been wondering- is there a thread that asks who is an actual( not just normal pilot but -no offense meant to airliner pilots- still major props- no pun intended) fighter jet pilots(possibly with screen names to more specifically pick their brain about certain systems or tactics or just exp’s. in general(obviously non- classified material only!) there’s a lot of irl posts but random-so i think or hope that a thread(“pilots thread” and “fighter pilots thread”) should be started… or maybe there is another place i should be looking for that type of discussion.

wishing i took school more seriously,
Justice