Parallels: Saitek X-65F to X-55 and the F-16 control stick

[SLangner]

While reading about the X-55 Rhino, I couldn’t help but remember that the original control stick on the F-16 didn’t move, similar to the X-65F joystick. After pilot complaints, the control stick on the F-16 was modified to provide tactile feedback (i.e. move).

If (or should I say when) I get a Rhino, I think it will help. For example, I have yet to successfully air refuel using my X-65F. When in the refueling envelope, I tend to over-control the jet, even at the lowest force setting. However, when using the more ‘primitive’ X-52 joystick which I still have, I was able to hook up with the tanker.

I also like the fact the Saitek has switched the positions of the TMS hat and the weapons release button. Not only does it conform to the F-16’s stick, it looks to prevent inadvertent weapons releases, such as IR missiles in air-to-air situations.

[Blu3wolf]

My suggestion would be to make a custom force setting lower than the default lowest, and to practice. It takes a fair bit of practice to not overcontrol with the X65F, which was my first stick and caused me no end of frustration trying to fly formation. Thanks to the faultless patience of my flight instructors Raven6 and Tango from the 1st VFW I managed to get through it, but key to the eventual success was a low sensitivity.

Do keep in mind that the stick on the F-16 does move, but only a little, and the movement does not control the aircraft.

Switching the positions of the pickle and the TMS hat is probably the best decision they could make. I have made that inadvertent weapon release before, and I cant say I was ever thrilled with the layout. My choice of solution was ultimately to buy a Cougar and mod it to FCC3 so that it would be force sensing like the X-65F, but there is no argument that the FCC3 is cheaper.

[freehand]

My x65 does move a little and in my mind when looking at the screen the stick feels like more movement I think it’s a kinda mind set I have taken to very quickly.

[Archer]

This post is deleted!

[Archer]

Please fast forward to 2:25

USAF Thunderbird F-16: Up Close and Personal – [02:25..08:44] 08:44
— Jim Bryant

[A.S]

Afaik (its out there one the net for sure, also for real pilots who came later and don´t know), the intial stick in the “16” wasn´t moving at all.
Stiff like a pole, but it wasn´t really much appreciated by the pilots for various reasons such as the response- and control-feeling on hands, and thus the update with the “slight” movement or “play” so to speak - even being still full pressure sensoring.

Personally i can´t imagine to like non-moving controls. The sim on a 2D screen is already very “static”, so at least my gears remain in “action”.

[Hikaru]

I did some kind of moving surface(by accident) that holds my x-65. It moves less than the thunderbirds video stick.
I think my input is faster with a force sensing stick, because I don’t have to do those moves to control the f-16. I have played f4 with x-45, x-52 and x-65, and with the last one i’m sure my combat style is faster.
Speaking of refueling, the problem for me is that i allways end firing at the tanker because I’m flying too fast or too slow, but there is no problem aiming to the correct position with the stick. Formations ae peace of cake, you just have to practice a lot and make kind of two force sensing profile. One for combat and a second one for formation/nav/refuiling.

Here is a video playing with fraps and doing some falcon stuff. I put music on it but did it wrong cause i’m a newbie editing videos

el regreso de gollum – 05:28
— Francisco Cabrera

[A.S]

The thing is… to know if a stick is really good or not is easy to tell in standard combat situations, but where it really shows is in regimes like those (video):

Cockpit Camera: Beaker's Delta Show – 17:03
— VirtualBlueAngels

I can´t remember having had reports with the X-65F in that kind of flying, but i do clearly remember, that in a test between the Warthog and the X-52Pro, the latter was much superior
in terms of smooth and frictionless hand to surfaces controls. Wish BMS would be “fine” enough to allow such flying.

Btw. great video… excellent stability in the formation in the over-banks, that barrel-roll at 1:00 i.e ain´t easy… different speeds required and also different drop-rates the “outer” one is from the “lead”. Also ,to hold the wings level with the lead a bit rudder is required… but with a bit of rudder work, drag changes and thruttle managment has to re-compensate position again… FUN!
Also great timing

Miss flying like that …

[upsidedown]

I have had both sticks Warthog and X-65 but stayed with Warthog because of the software. Saitek software programing was just not clear enough and support not available but i did like the saitek stick better
and still do. if anyone builds a better stick they need to remember that this is a hobby that has many pieces that don’t come cheap and the learning curve can be steep. People that stick with it are the ones who love it so paying attention to the details is important. Hardware / Software / Price if the developers want to win you need to listen to the people who buy your product