Effect of pitch angle on radar detection altitude
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Of course its possible. You adjust the antenna pattern to take into account the pitch and roll, thats all.
Ex :
-AC is banking 25° clockwise-> you rotate the bars 25° counterclockwise so that they remain horizontals.
-AC is pitching 15° up -> you move the antenna elevation 15° down so that you scan the same volume.
Etc.Antenna moves quite fast, so except in limit roll, it can catch up quite fast.
Pitch and roll attitude is given by the INS, probably.
The radar antenna has a maximum gimbal area. What happens if you are flying higher and use in level flight in a -30 deg elevation then you do a barrel roll to evade a SAM? It can happen that to keep the necessary scan zone the radar will go outside the gimbal limit… This does not modeled in game. What about the realitiy? Regardless of turn rate the radar is capable to change always and so quickly the scan pattern? Currently you can set up such an elevation angle which literally means that you can scan the airpace below your AC…
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The radar antenna has a maximum gimbal area. What happens if you are flying higher and use in level flight in a -30 deg elevation then you do a barrel roll to evade a SAM? It can happen that to keep the necessary scan zone the radar will go outside the gimbal limit… This does not modeled in game. What about the realitiy? Regardless of turn rate the radar is capable to change always and so quickly the scan pattern?
Gimbal limit is important in pitch. As the antenna has a +60/-60 field, you really need to get your nose up or down to lose coverage. Gimbal in yaw is not really relevant, the radar does not scan in a specified fixed bearing but always compared to the AC nose.
The antenna moves pretty fast anyway : a bar scan takes 2s to scan 120°. So I think it can keep up with whatever pitch rate you have.
Roll rate is something else though. As you need to keep the bar horizontals, and the F-16 roll rate is quite big, you can lose the ability to do a proper scan. Maybe have troubles maintaining track too.
But you are not really supposed to do quick rolls in succession anyway, its neither useful nor safe for departures prevention. -
But you are not really supposed to do quick rolls in succession anyway, its neither useful nor safe for departures prevention.
While you are in a BVR fight in head to head case with SARH missiles for keep the track and STT lock for you missile is require to lock even you do defensive turn. Not only F-16C + AMRAAM exist in the world. What I heard the cassegrain antenna of Russain jets simply makes impossible the F-pole because its bank angle and other limitations. Therfore I guess are limitations for other radar antenna types.
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While you are in a BVR fight in head to head case with SARH missiles for keep the track and STT lock for you missile is require to lock even you do defensive turn. Not only F-16C + AMRAAM exist in the world. What I heard the cassegrain antenna of Russain jets simply makes impossible the F-pole because its bank angle and other limitations. Therfore I guess are limitations for other radar antenna types.
I agree, but some actual doc would be nice before changing anything.
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…you are not really supposed to do quick rolls in succession anyway, its neither useful nor safe for departures prevention.
LOL…!
I’d like to survive this encounter, but - I really shouldn’t do quick rolls in succession, so… BANG
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@Ara’:
LOL…!
I’d like to survive this encounter, but - I really shouldn’t do quick rolls in succession, so… BANG
Quick full rolls in sequence on one direction are neither recommended nor useful. Its actually forbidden in the real F-16 flight manual. Risk of roll departure is too important, especially if you are in CAT1 with a CAT3 loadout.
Tell me one situation where you need to do 2 or 3 full rolls in a row.
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ok, Molni is correct. The radar should not work in a vertical roll.
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Quick full rolls in sequence on one direction are neither recommended nor useful. Its actually forbidden in the real F-16 flight manual. Risk of roll departure is too important, especially if you are in CAT1 with a CAT3 loadout.
Tell me one situation where you need to do 2 or 3 full rolls in a row.
In fairness this speaks more to the fact that you shouldnt be in CAT I if you have a CAT III loadout…
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In fairness this speaks more to the fact that you shouldnt be in CAT I if you have a CAT III loadout…
It’s a good idea to switch to CATI before releasing bomb load on a pop-up or loft profile. Then you don’t have to take your hand off the HOTAS to flip the CATI/III switch after releasing the bombs. You might need CATI limits to dodge the AD.
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In fairness this speaks more to the fact that you shouldnt be in CAT I if you have a CAT III loadout…
Very true. But it can happen anyway, either by error or before a bomb release, as caper said.
Anyway, if you do quick rolls in succession, no matter your loadout, your AOA will gradually increase, up to a point where roll departure becomes likely when your roll rate is important.
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It’s a good idea to switch to CATI before releasing bomb load on a pop-up or loft profile. Then you don’t have to take your hand off the HOTAS to flip the CATI/III switch after releasing the bombs. You might need CATI limits to dodge the AD.
After dropping bombs, I still have a pair of wing tanks. In real life, I believe that set-up can be CATI when they’re empty for x%, but not sure how BMS handles this, so I keep it in CATIII.
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Wings tanks is CAT 1 in real.
But Sniper is CAT3 so…. -
Wings tanks is CAT 1 in real.
But Sniper is CAT3 so….Any chance that the TGP will end up as a removeable store like ECM pods are in a future release?
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Gimbal limit is important in pitch. As the antenna has a +60/-60 field, you really need to get your nose up or down to lose coverage. Gimbal in yaw is not really relevant, the radar does not scan in a specified fixed bearing but always compared to the AC nose.
The antenna moves pretty fast anyway : a bar scan takes 2s to scan 120°. So I think it can keep up with whatever pitch rate you have.
Roll rate is something else though. As you need to keep the bar horizontals, and the F-16 roll rate is quite big, you can lose the ability to do a proper scan. Maybe have troubles maintaining track too.
But you are not really supposed to do quick rolls in succession anyway, its neither useful nor safe for departures prevention.Yeah but if you scan lets say 0 30 kgft , which is max opening of your antenna down up , if you pitch 30 deg up , the down mechamixal limit is not the same so the result could something like 8 - 30….
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Yeah but if you scan lets say 0 30 kgft , which is max opening of your antenna down up , if you pitch 30 deg up , the down mechamixal limit is not the same so the result could something like 8 - 30….
Good point. I guess the antenna can move 60° in all direction, resulting in a “cone”, and not a “pyramid” of possible directions, is that it ?
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Good point. I guess the antenna can move 60° in all direction, resulting in a “cone”, and not a “pyramid” of possible directions, is that it ?
So assuming the antenna scan the most opened any pitch change should result in a variation of max or min because of mechanical limits
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Well, it was pasted as-is…
As was mine. Straight out of the CDCs for an avionics technician working on the airframe.
So according to your assumption,
No assumption here. This is out of technical data that maintainers are given to learn to fix the aircraft.
if the bird looses INS, = no radar proper operation due to drifts… Or better, if INS = off, and GPS = jammed or EGI lost alignment, then again no radar proper tracking…
LOL well I think that if a pilot loses that much of his aircraft whether or not his FCR is stabilized is the LEAST of his concerns. Just saying.
The antenna movement vs aircraft reactions is controlled from its dedicated Inertial Measurement Unit. The FCR through MMC and INS provide target data placement in the 3D space and FCR MFD.
What is your source? I’ve listed mine.
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As was mine. Straight out of the CDCs for an avionics technician working on the airframe.
What is your source? I’ve listed mine.
Directly from that little v9 thing that is inside the radome.
I have no idea what the cds state, but everything required by the topic question are clearly answered there.
LOL well I think that if a pilot loses that much of his aircraft whether or not his FCR is stabilized is the LEAST of his concerns. Just saying.
Well, I don’t think that this is an clear answer to the “scenario” nor is the “that much”, more a maneuver 2 me.
Just saying…
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The radar antenna has a maximum gimbal area. What happens if you are flying higher and use in level flight in a -30 deg elevation then you do a barrel roll to evade a SAM?
The antenna has +/- 60 degrees about both axis so I highly doubt a barrel roll is going to cause it to go to gimbals. Now having the antenna set to the horizon and going beyond 60 degrees into the vertical will.
It can happen that to keep the necessary scan zone the radar will go outside the gimbal limit… This does not modeled in game. What about the realitiy? Regardless of turn rate the radar is capable to change always and so quickly the scan pattern?
The FCR computer sends update commands for antenna positioning 200 times per second. I think it can hang as long as it is within gimbal limits and doesn’t exceed roll stabilization.
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Directly from that little v9 thing that is inside the radome.
Are you honestly trying to state the functions of the FCR system based on what the radome says?
I have no idea what the cds state, but everything required by the topic question are clearly answered there.
I do as I pulled mine out and read it to come up with this answer.
Well, I don’t think that this is an clear answer to the “scenario” nor is the “that much”, more a maneuver 2 me.
Just saying…
It should be pretty obvious that if you have lost INS and GPS so you only have good weather (IF you even have that) and TACAN to get home your primary concern is getting your bird back home on the ground. The FCR system losing it’s stabilization feature thanks to that is a problem but it is not your PRIMARY problem.