Multiple refueling areas - distance from each other

[Tulkas]

We are gonna prepare a large package and want to program three diferent tankers over the sea on three parallel tracks.

Can they conflict with each other and not work properly? Is there a minimum distance form each other we have to respect? Any other thing we should take into consideration?

Thanks!

Tulkas

[Eagle-Eye]

AFAIK, when requesting vectors to/clearance from the tanker, AI will use the nearest available. Unfortunately, that means you can end up being guided to the wrong tanker when asking at the wrong time.

E.g. you have 3 sectors, and you’re on the left-bottom corner of the left one when you request guidance. At that moment, the tanker in the left sector is at the top-right, while the tanker in the middle sector is in the bottom part = good chance you’ll be guided to the middle sector instead.

=> If you want to be sure this doesn’t happen, you have to take a pre-planned fixed point where you will request AAR, and make sure that your tanker track is always closer than the nearest distance to any other track. This can work great for outer sectors, but middle sectors may be unusually large.

[Dee-Jay]

Try with at least 30NM between each tracks to allow at least 10 to 20Nm spacing anytime between Tankers.

[jinro88]

@Eagle-Eye:

AFAIK, when requesting vectors to/clearance from the tanker, AI will use the nearest available. Unfortunately, that means you can end up being guided to the wrong tanker when asking at the wrong time.

Or use KC-10s with A-A TACAN so each flight can navigate without “aid” from the AI.

[Agave_Blue]

@Tulkas:

We are gonna prepare a large package and want to program three diferent tankers over the sea on three parallel tracks.

Can they conflict with each other and not work properly? Is there a minimum distance form each other we have to respect? Any other thing we should take into consideration?

Thanks!

Tulkas

We’ve done similar in the past and yes is seemed that they could (somehow) interfere with each other. In our case, 1? of the 4 tankers refused to give fuel …. it was not a timing/time-on-station issue … it was something else. Possibly being too close to another tanker to run it’s track.

As far as the AI and what tanker thing … assign each flight of humans (or human with AI) a specific tanker. Do NOT call the tanker until the entire flight is within a few miles (i.e. Judy and on a visual intercept). Make SURE the last AC in the flight pushes ‘Y3’ BEFORE leaving the rejoin/right observation area.

Even with all that, there is still a good chance that one or more tankers will get stuck in a turn while a flight is filling up.

@Dee-Jay:

Try with at least 30NM between each tracks to allow at least 10 to 20Nm spacing anytime between Tankers.

Yes, agree. At least 30nm between tankers.

[Eagle-Eye]

@jinro88:

Or use KC-10s with A-A TACAN so each flight can navigate without “aid” from the AI.

You still need to know which tanker uses what AA TACAN in a certain sector for this. Something you can’t really know without AWACS guidance, unless you scan all known TACANs, but that is time-consuming and might still be wrong.

What are all the default AAR TACANs, by the way? I know 92-29Y and 126-63Y, but that’s it.

[Agave_Blue]

@Eagle-Eye:

You still need to know which tanker uses what AA TACAN in a certain sector for this. Something you can’t really know without AWACS guidance, unless you scan all known TACANs, but that is time-consuming and might still be wrong. ……

Doesn’t Mission Commander give you that info? Our large multi-player flights are pre-briefed with the tanker TACAN, callsigns, TOS, etc. …. the mission builders are getting that info somewhere.

[jinro88]

@Eagle-Eye:

You still need to know which tanker uses what AA TACAN in a certain sector for this. Something you can’t really know without AWACS guidance, unless you scan all known TACANs, but that is time-consuming and might still be wrong.

What are all the default AAR TACANs, by the way? I know 92-29Y and 126-63Y, but that’s it.

WDP takes care of that.

I think the first tanker is 29Y, second 63Y, and then any added after that decrease from 63Y in increments of one (62Y, 61Y, 60Y, etc.)? It’s explained in one of the BMS manuals somewhere.

[Tulkas]

@Agave_Blue:

We’ve done similar in the past and yes is seemed that they could (somehow) interfere with each other. In our case, 1? of the 4 tankers refused to give fuel …. it was not a timing/time-on-station issue … it was something else. Possibly being too close to another tanker to run it’s track.

Yes, that’s the kind of interference I was talking about. In fact we flew the mission and one of the tankers did not work properly. It was fine with the other two and we sucessfully completed our pre and post attack AAR.

Thanks all for your answers.

Cheers

Tulkas

[Agave_Blue]

@Agave_Blue:

Doesn’t Mission Commander give you that info? Our large multi-player flights are pre-briefed with the tanker TACAN, callsigns, TOS, etc. …. the mission builders are getting that info somewhere.

:hmmm: …. maybe not. I checked Mission Commander for an existing TE and couldn’t find/did not see TACAN channels for the tankers.

BUT … our mission planners are putting them into their briefs. Not sure where/how they are getting them in advance.

[Cik]

it is weapon delivery planner. it will give you the tracks of any tanker(s) on the map, or that will be on the map, and in the datacard section you can choose which tankers you want to see. you can highlight their tracks to steerpoints and it will also give you what TACAN they will operate on, even if they haven’t taken off yet. it’s a nice program.