Can anyone write a program like this? (Auotmatic generation of Trees and Objects)

[Tom Catz]

Well,

I really dont know if this is possible. My idea is following:

I simple program to open a single TILE just like this examble. Because every Tile have as single number and is used a hundred times in a map just like Korea or Israel or Balkan and so on:

Now the builder place objects on These tile …

Now saved this as - dont know L2-file? - Theater file ? Object data - Dont know. But now should EVERY of These tiles have These placed 3D objekts on map.

The idea is simple: So the 3d-objekts are in cooperation with the texture and the builder have to create the scenery only one time for hundreds of tiles in one step.
So the Theater builders can create Citys, Forrests, Villiages, habours, and we have the best looking Simulation ever!

So I really hope that it is possible to do … Monsters Terrain Tool, maybe?

Ideas? Critics? Possible?

Cheers,
Tom

[Raptor]

My idea of proper simulation would be to actually realistically simulate a “city”, “town”, “village” etc as closer as you can using real data eg from Google Earth, meaning not placing generic objects in a specific and following pattern… Although what you describe above is interesting and the final result might be astonishing, that does not mean at all that what you see when flying above these areas from in-sim corresponds to what there is down there in a real flight, so the expected benefits are against the realism. IMHO EMF has done the best job out there towards this changing from some of their public shots.

Moreover, although this implementation of having a terrain full of realistically placed objects would be a tremendous benefit, at this time / with the current technology specifications and limitations / in the current sim tittle of simulating a combat aircraft, I am not sure that should be the primary focus of things to come - to expect. There are dozens of other critical factors to perfect in order to have the best combat experience versus highly populated areas. This is also why the rl multimillion $$ sims do not have detailed populated places using dedicated 3D objects, rather than satellite photorealistic images.

[roccio]

You mean something like annotator, the tool from MS Flight Simulator?

[Arty]

Well this is procedural building programming. This first needs internal code in falcon. Since we know - excpect this to be on on a next version I believe it will work like getting areas declared from terrain Editor (Monster ) like where u declare water, u declare forest. Then the code locates those areas and according to it’s parameters and library draws the forest.This doesn’t need an entire new app.Now for more complex things like cities, maybe yes. And I would say not google earth but OSM Open Street Map to get roads - create the blocks from them assign - declare blocks attributes like urban highrise park etc and then the code pops up a city.Those need lots of code. Lots of rules to work lots of 3d models and textures for the library so that the code can create variation. Now Wavey Dave saying they squeeze 16Buildings in one texture might have something to do with it as those procedural models use facades that are repeated and a small texture can cover the whole building or 3/4 of it.Hmmm if this is the case, those guys probably will cause many heart attacks when this gets public.

[sthalik]

@Arty

This first needs internal code in falcon

Autogen woulda, this doesn’t since this is autogen pre-falcon-launch.

Since rest of the post lies on the assumption (quotation by Arty), rest incorrect or irrelevant anyway.

-sh, trying to prevent Arty introducing misinformation

[Arty]

Well this can actually work but all forests and cities will be almost exactly the same. The exception will be the outline borders areas.
What u actually say is based on the terrain tiles plant the 3d object so this app u ask for creates all the job needed via f4browse and tacedit, kinda like a script or a macro.
Example over the same city tile I put at one city a factory, on another city (same tile) buildings and a tv station.

So u have to create new ones and maybe mix match some.

Yeap could work, but limits the potential as the tiles are your limit.

Reminds me the autobridge placement via terrain Editor Demer posted. Have u tried it?

[sthalik]

Bigger issue is the blurry crapola splattered over the triangled mesh making up the terrain. Whether it’s identical let be a question when we have ground detail to begin with.

WRT scripting/macroing software without support for scripting it in the first place, like OSX allows to an extent, is a chore, when the clicks to put are over an image. In tacedit, interface making up the theater is one large image. Same for Monster’s tools. These tools aren’t made for automation! If anyone wants to automate them (in the case they know how), that’s actually easier to do with a standalone tool rather than these ill-advised ponderings.

[ASharpe]

I wonder if it would be possible to place 3D buildings and then run it through an app to “re-bake” the texture, so to speak, with a proper ground footprint image centered on the building’s 3D coordinates to make the textures look nicer.

[sthalik]

Hardly. Perspective-project something (like a cat) into a 2D plane then rotate it. Reminds of the photoscenery fiasco.

[MrIch]

It would be great if falcon would be compatible with X plane terrain. Just check this out http://world2xplane.com/
They use osm data to produce astonishing results.

[Arty]

@Asharpe didn’t understood u m8. Could u be more detailed?

In 3ds max u can bake multiple textures in one. But this is worst and needs good skills on mapping to take advantage of space and quality. This is what I study at the moment for FBB project.

This is why I talked about procedural and facades. Facades are seameles textures where a 200x100 texture can cover in high detail a 70 floors building that could need more then 4096x4096 texture. U combine such small textures like wall windows balcony rofs etc and the code automatches those (from your library of such textures) to the dimensions of your building.
U create sets like high rise urban industrial area etc u declare them on your terrain and the code where it sees industrial cover the buildings with textures from the industrial library.
Same can apply for forests.

This can be done and to what this thread asks about. Work tile by tile. Create the 3d object which will be for this tile. So u have to create some x.xxx 3d objects make them features and objectives inside Falcon after u import all those in to 3d database with LodEditor.
For f4browse and tacedit a program can be made or a script thing… Don’t know about 3d database and LodEditor. Since LodEditor can then sure a program could…
The question is do the resources to build an app for such thing exist?

[sthalik]

@Arty how is what you call “facades” different to what’s known to any 3D programmer as UV mapping? At least parts applicable to Falcon terrain and not just 3ds max user convenience.

As for last @Arty paragraph, thread creator asks how to automate the process. Your text describes just that process, without participating in finding a working solution.

As for the last @Arty post line, this is restating the same question asked by thread creator, Tom Catz. No one asked you to restate the question in different words. Please don’t pollute this, or any other threads with misinformation or irrelevant content.

[Arty]

As now u answer to me I answered to Asharpe. Who is poluting now?
Also I believe I’m intitled of an apology by u as in my last paragraph I added a new parameter - question that was not initially brought to the subject.
What was your contribution on the subject except criticism on other ppl posts?

[livrot]

did you try and check my speech recognizer - it is preview release only, but it offers MAXIMUM makro command action.
you can record mouse moves, all kind of mouse clicks and all keyboard events for minutes. work on a test image and have the same image program open with the same image in the bakground to check it out!

The recorded makro can be triggered by voice or hotkey.

The makro recorder will become better - triggered by voice or hotkey, ability to pause …

maybe this helps

could change anybodys way of working.

[ASharpe]

@Arty:

@Asharpe didn’t understood u m8. Could u be more detailed?

Well I had this half cocked idea that you could place a 3D building in an application and the application would add a layer to the tile image file for a sort of texture footprint for the building. But after thinking about that, I don’t understand the tiling system in Falcon 4 well enough. I’m guessing that it probably re-uses tiles, which means this would never work.

One of my pet peeves is when there is a building on the map and it is clearly supposed to be sitting on the concrete pad, but the coordinates of the building are off relative to the texture and instead half of it is on the concrete pad and half of it is on the grass.

[Khronik]

The idea is flawed IMO because while you can easily script static alignment of buildings (for eg.) on a countless number of tiles, what becomes problematic is how these tiles will blend with adjacent tiles.

Sure if the whole map is farm land, but there will be major manual edits involved to “clean” the areas which translate to other tiles/types.

You would need transition features that would be able to merge with the neighboring type, just as we do now with 2D tiles.

[ASharpe]

@Khronik:

The idea is flawed IMO because while you can easily script static alignment of buildings (for eg.) on a countless number of tiles, what becomes problematic is how these tiles will blend with adjacent tiles.

Sure if the whole map is farm land, but there will be major manual edits involved to “clean” the areas which translate to other tiles/types.

You would need transition features that would be able to merge with the neighboring type, just as we do now with 2D tiles.

Ideally in my made up fantasy world where people and projects shared code with each other…. If you placed a building close to a tile joint for lack of a better term, the app would be smart enough to handle transitions. But my lack thereof f understanding regarding the tiling system is probably at work with my niavete here.

[Taipan]

@Raptor:

My idea of proper simulation would be to actually realistically simulate a “city”, “town”, “village” etc as closer as you can using real data eg from Google Earth, meaning not placing generic objects in a specific and following pattern…

Like tile proxy for FSX ? ( http://www.edtruthan.com/tileproxy/tutorial/ )

[Stratos]

Interesting posts. Hope to see BMS more “populated” in the future, it will be a game changer for a lot of people including me.