Whats the Best Hornet?
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One thing to I need to mention is that in Somalia I have 64 segment map, a dynamic campaign running with over a hundred tanks along the FLOT battling it out along with an equal number of jets in the skies. Yet we are able to achieve Sky high FPS and smooth campaign play. If we were to do the same think in DCS using the Persian Map, the sim would be a slideshow. Simming is always about compromises.
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I think that it is clear that people that don’t share the same approach of a combat simulator can not understand each other.
Let me fix that for you….
I think that it is clear that people that don’t share the same approach of a combat simulator do not want to understand each other.
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I saw a DCS video of the devs and looked like the objects on the terrain were being dragged and dropped onto it one at a time which if so must take forever. (wonder if that is a reason for the smaller Maps)
Sounds weird… I’d expect all those generic buildings to be automatically placed by data from OSM and 3D models and textures from some pre defined pool.
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Tazz I don’t think ppl do not want to understand each other.
There are aspects in the coding process that we can’t imagine.
Those aspects some times either drive hw to their limits or coders to their limits.
Being on the outside and with no knowledge on coding makes things harder to understand.
In many posts coders had some arguments and things where ending up like this doesn’t work out, to do this many other things must be done or change and the overkill is that much that makes it a 6-8 weeks to do it also all theaters and 3d models must be done from scratch. This will be a big step back for users and coders doing stuff on the long run without being able to provide actual usable features to the community.
Maybe the long talk about terrain engine rings a bell… We talk about it like it’s a process similar to changing a tire to a car or a truck, but it’s just not like that at all.
A wanted change for the 3d db surfaced not very long time ago.
No one was touching it for that time.
Mortesil came up and picked up the glove.
It’s been some time now and the app is not ready yet. In my experience, and my way on falcon, he is super fast.
This gives a very very good example to the community that things are not easy at all.
First you must have available the human - humans to perform those actions. You can’t have them on deadlines cause they do it on their free time.What we ask here is from some to kill their free time for some others to enjoy their free time.
I know devs and betas do it cause they like it but mostly I believe they are driven by the think of,having to pay some debt, ok some before me gave me this pleasure, I must contribute also to kind of pay my debt.So we are actually paying for it… But do we all pay?
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Sounds weird… I’d expect all those generic buildings to be automatically placed by data from OSM and 3D models and textures from some pre defined pool.
You mean autogenerated? I think DCS maps are static.
Just like Arma maps. -
You mean autogenerated? I think DCS maps are static.
Just like Arma maps.No, I didn’t mean that the maps are auto generating stuff at real time from some web source, it’s OK that the data is static, but I assume that they do pull the placement data from OSM (or some similar source).
The structures in DCS (Judging by the numbers) must use HW Instancing (It’s a feature of DX11), means that you create e.g 1 model and render it many times (Possible with different textures) all over the place using a single draw call, that’s the classic way to create a city/village full of buildings, efficiently. And assuming they are indeed using OSM, it would be classic to create a tool that will use the OSM data and match it to 3D models in the sim in order to prepare the mass data needed for such mass and efficient rendering. Of course easier to talk than actually do, but that’s how it should be working.
If they do place each building by hand, then I can’t see the reason to that, when so accurate OSM data exists freely on the web. OSM amazingly include for each mapped building it’s actual “ways” to create the walls, means that if you are crazy enough, you can render the buildings exactly as they are in reality, but for a flight sim, having something similar or generic is way more than enough.
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wow wow wow Hey hey hey hold your horses…
were can we get those OSM data for the buildings you mention? I’ve been looking for those for years to easily create those 3d cities but couldn’t find those.
Is there something changed on the OSM data? -
Well, I’m not familiar with the data, but I know there is such data, otherwise how this kind of stuff is generated?
Also AFAIK that’s e.g how P3D are doing their autogen (With some “cutting” of the buildings to be rectangulars):
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from OSM you get only the position and maybe the kind of building like apartments church public offices etc you don’t get the dimensions.
If u look the buildings on the first video you posted they are most flat on the same level like most are 5 floor buildings.
This is the current way you get the buildings positions and you create rules to auto generate the dimensions and floors. which is the pain to make them look as close to the real ones. Needs to create and declare zones and variations.Even worst on that video the buildings are like clued together.
On the airplane video they are not clued and seems a nice library of textures is created and a fine rule created to generate the buildings which look much better than the first video.
The info for buildings in many areas is there but needs access to payware servers to get those data, like ARCGIS. then it’s only texturing.
So… Nope… still the same thing. going back to sleep… :lol:
Edit: so they place them one by one or they have implemented the procedural way and they run the rule to recreate them based on the rule and library. Still specific buildings like Empire state building or landmarks are placed by hand on the procedural thing.
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That’s not what I have heard but I can’t speak from my own knowledge so I won’t argue about the exact details.
There is also this vid showing city model in Maya:
from OSM you get only the position and maybe the kind of building like apartments church public offices etc you don’t get the dimensions.
BTW, that kind of info is probably more than enough for generating a nicely blended city, for a flight sim at least.
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That’s not what I have heard but I can’t speak from my own knowledge so I won’t argue about the exact details.
There is also this vid showing city model in Maya:
BTW, that kind of info is probably more than enough for generating a nicely blended city, for a flight sim at least.
He uses python. Python is for the procedural rules.
The OSM provides the LOT’s.
LOT is the base of the building. With Python u use this to generate the buildings.
There in the rules in python u declare the variations and values. like randomness and percentages to variate on heights and etc.So still same old thing…
Please wake me up if you have something valid. :lol:The thing is how to implement this python thing in the thing to be able to create such rules.
And the big thing is how to represent them in the 3d of falcon.I believe you see that they follow the terrain… right?
and some specific landmarks… just for the heck of it…
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Don’t know if it’s been posted before, but I found this video quite inspiring…
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Arty if you happen to do that in BMS, I promise to stop using DCS-World.:D
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The thing is how to implement this python thing in the thing to be able to create such rules.
Look, eventually it’s data, data can be binary, text, it doesn’t matter, once you know to read it and what value means what, you can export any part of the world and build your own set of data. I don’t think this is a real problem.
And the big thing is how to represent them in the 3d of falcon.
Yes that will require some deeper work, as without HW instancing, this can’t be practically done (Draw call for each building, for such mass will get you a slide show for sure), And HW Instancing means DX11…
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Arty if you happen to do that in BMS, I promise to stop using DCS-World.:D
I have done it in BMS.
At least the basic stuff.Sorry no video, my pc back then was half the power I have now.
some details also here:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12073-3D-Cities-for-Falconand a good example by Nuno Santos:
Unfortunately my 3ds skills ain’t that good and the models are vast to manipulate in 3ds max as a whole city.
I kinda learned how to brake them down and do piece by piece.
The thing is the library and reducing the unwanted info in 3ds max or creating rules so to pass low poly buildings in 3ds max.On the previous post it’s Kavala from Macedonia area which is on a mountain and Chania from Crete. I showed it at Ikaros guys but they didn’t like it.
I know they are not final but better than flat texture. Also working on it I would get motivation and experience on how to fine tune it. So here we are.
trying to master simpler stuff first. -
DCS obviously had issues, serious issues unless they wouldn’t start with those open alpha and pre releases.
I think you are wrong here, almost every company in video games is doing open alpha, pre-release, early access and not because they have problems.
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I think you are wrong here, almost every company in video games is doing open alpha, pre-release, early access and not because they have problems.
Sure maybe.
On those you refer to, do they sell them? like DCS does? -
Unfortunately my 3ds skills ain’t that good and the models are vast to manipulate in 3ds max as a whole city.
I kinda learned how to brake them down and do piece by piece.
The thing is the library and reducing the unwanted info in 3ds max or creating rules so to pass low poly buildings in 3ds max.On the previous post it’s Kavala from Macedonia area which is on a mountain and Chania from Crete. I showed it at Ikaros guys but they didn’t like it.
I know they are not final but better than flat texture. Also working on it I would get motivation and experience on how to fine tune it. So here we are.
trying to master simpler stuff first.Don’t waste too much time on that, we will get to it sooner or later
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Thanks.
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I don’t know if you know