WIP - Hawaii Theatre
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wow~ Demer you are serious!!if coder could change the tile size from 1km x1km to 2km x2km, or even larger, we may reduce tile sets and tile count significantly.
imho idk if 2x2 km would make the trick, because larger size means larger images, that is “higher” in terms of altitude, that “less” is in therms of resolution compared to 1km square… I can be wrong for sure, btw if it’s possible would be great to try even without getting the “perfection” level
I tried to go out to 2km,but that mucked the objective MODEL scaling in game.i.e. the Feature’s on an ABase were bigger than the tile image they sat on.So that’s a no go.
demer
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For sure Stef….But, you of all people well know, how long it take’s me to build\rebuild a Theater from the “Ground Up”……
3-4week’s :rofl:TIA,
DaveIf so or anyway it goes, please count on me too about finding ideas for a new campaign or beta testing tasks, if you like.
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A little update on the PR tile’s,this is the mashup for OAHU:
![](http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/demer928/demers BMS/OAHUmu.jpg)
This is the SPLIT @ 256![](http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/demer928/demers BMS/OAHU256JPG.jpg)
This is the SCALED split @ 512
![](http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu49/demer928/demers BMS/OAHU512.jpg)
hehehehehe……more to come!!!:mrgreen:
(brought to you indirectly,by the HACKER’s @ YAHOO! Gotta love a company that promote’s “Hacker’s Day”…hahahaha)
demer -
good job. it seems you want to go FULL PR tiles…
My rough calculation shows Hawaii needs 20000+ SAT tiles… thats in my PMC post, long time ago.in this way… a much smaller island-type theater could be done like Guam, and Iwo Jima. Falkland could be too big( and very poor SAT image). Canal area in Panama theater could use PR tiles too.
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good job. it seems you want to go FULL PR tiles…
My rough calculation shows Hawaii needs 20000+ SAT tiles… thats in my PMC post, long time ago.in this way… a much smaller island-type theater could be done like Guam, and Iwo Jima. Falkland could be too big( and very poor SAT image). Canal area in Panama theater could use PR tiles too.
Hi ccc,
Can’t read your post @PMC……:rofl:
But,as you can see from the image’s, that a 256x256 tile set would return 4800 tile’s.That is a liberal calculation,because the white tile’s would be discarded.Agreed,way too many.
The 512x512 tile set that is scaled/zoomed to the in game model’s, returns 1200 tile’s.Again a liberal calculation, due to discarding the white tiles.
Probably closer to 800 tile’s.In my in game test’s this AM,we lose some definition\resolution @ 512.
But,that can probably be PShopped a bit.
I think the Big island may strain the budget,OTOH the smaller island’s can probably be tiled from the major island tile sets;)I’ll post some screen’s when “my old eye’s” think we have a reasonable compromise between code\tool limit’s and “EyeCandy”!!!:mrgreen:
Regards,
demer -
Here is a couple screen’s of what\how we start the process of tiling PR:
Please note that the grid line’s represent your tile’s.
So you can see I have 96 tile’s=6 set’s in Falcon already.
Remember we only,I think,have 256set’s\4096tile’s in Falcon…I’m about to test this in BMS(Wanna’ see how big the LIST can get :mrgreen:)Now mind you, Hawaii is a very small theater and most of the SeaTile’s will repeat themselve’s.
How do I convert them to the seamless tile’s you see in the ScreenShot’s???
Easy with this FREE tool:http://tilemage.50webs.com/ Now, maybe you guy’s see why it take’s 3-4 Falcon Week’s……;)Have fun,
demer@Dog…LOL…up for some tiling…HAHAHA!!!
Wow is that how you guys do it tile by tile its awesome I can now see why all the fuss.
Maybe in the near future I get involved some how, I would like to try that!
So how does porting from old F4 work show me a shot if you can.
I wish you were next door would love to sit and learn.
Good idea I think to post how you guys do things behind the scenes so we all can see how its done.
I really appreciate what you guys do, I guess you all feel so proud when we come on board express our gratitude, paysoff in the end!
I would like to see especially Hawaii as you say is small put it into some sort of tutorial for all to see!
Also show us how skinning is done I love that some say its easy and just a very quick process.
I would definately like to see more of this!
One guy that I read uses google earth than a few applications to translate into HD detail he posted over at FF5, no one listened, I noticed put away in my head for later time. Pop over see if you can find post it really made sense.
I will search internet later to see if I can find some youtube on this.
Thanks anyway.
Long Live F4!
TAGMAN
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Hi went over found the post let know me if this is any good!
Just interested to know more about this, maybe of some help I dont know, but I found it interesting when I first read it, then I did some quick research found that it was a maze of apps and software you could use.
Which app and software is the best for this type of sim, no clue myself.
But just the thought of it might be useful to you guys.
Here is post I found at FF5:-
Using this software: http://www.allallsoft.com/gsmd/1. Using Google Earth to create theaters/maps
Hi guys, I´ve got some tools to grab geographical data from Google Earth and maybe can be use to design terrain and in a future export Google Earth´s tiles to FF.Here are the tools:
Google Earth: http://earth.google.com
SRTM (DEM data extractor for Google Earth): http://www.ambiotek.com/topoview
Microdem (Read the DEM data): http://www.usna.edu/Users/oceano/pgu…m/microdem.htm1st: Install Google Earth and Microdem.
2nd: Open Google Earth
3rd: Execute from URL or if you´ve downlaode the SRTMNow in Google Earth you´ll see SRTM4.1 in Temporary Places.
- Check Elevation (a grid with tada will be shown in Google Earth)
If you click in each Data icon you´ll get a screen and two options:
Option 1: Download the data for tile: srtm_##_## that mean you can dowload ASCII data from that quadrant and can be imported to Microdem
Option 2: Visualize the tiles in google Earth:
If you choosen Option 2:
Google Earth will load DEM image data directly in Goole Erarth´s map
If you check the Temporary Places, you will see “Elevation Preview” for each SRTM_##_## data you selected to show in the maps. If you check the Elevation Previe, you´ll got two more Data icons, you can click them and download as the Option 1.What does that mean?. If you picked to download the data (not showing in the map as option 2) you ll download all DEM data from that quadrant. If you picked Option 2, now you can download the same information as in Option 1 but splitted in several files as shown in map.
Now we got DEM files, so, its time to someone to translate it to a format that F4 can read.
Does anyone have explanation of L# data structure? maybe we can get these DEM files in the L# structure and create detailed theaters for FF and also use Google´s terrain image for realistic results
TAGMAN
- Check Elevation (a grid with tada will be shown in Google Earth)
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Hi Tagman,
After we have made the dem2terrain MAP,then the HARD work begin’s.
and yes, to tile PhotoRealistic, we have to do it by hand.(3-4Falcon Weeks;))
As well,we have to make the tile’s first!!!A word of caution on your advise to use GoogleEarth\GoogleMap’s SAT image’s.
Most of Google’s SAT\Aerial Photography is Licensed by Google from third party provider’s and is copyrighted
Not a good thing for redistribution!!!OTOH,The image’s you are seeing from me, for Hawaii,are from NASA\MSVE (MSVE was deprecated,I think in 2009???May need a lawyer here…LOL) and are in the Public Domain.Those are free to use.
Though I did not intend this thread to be a “This is how we do it” thread,I will continue to post the progress as we move ahead.Then maybe you guy’s can glean the info for your use!!!
demer
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Hi Demer,
Damn I cant believe how hard it is for you guys with this license, EULA stuff, cant anybody in the FREE WORLD see this done for free, just offer a hand and FREEBIES Apps, Tools, Software, time and knowledge to create and finish this, Great Free Sim!
We need Stalin’s, or do we, don’t know??? Some just spoil all the fun!
You guys have to delve into all those complexities, damn, I never knew how difficult it was, what about publishing something on net a call for freebies for something with so many followers (“F4”) it is what 3000 members now ( WoW by the way) maybe try gaming mags, gaming companies, some freebies would be nice, any harm in asking??? I got know idea, its over my head!
The more I read on Theater, Campaings and Maps, its like eating something that I would call " YUM-YUCKS"
Good but difficult!!! Limitations!
A CALL TO SOMEONE IN THE GAMING WORLD TO HELP US HERE AT BMS “F4”!
I wish you guys all the best and appreciate all you do to continue this great SIM, will get there don’t worry I can see good talent here.
“YES WE CAN”, YES WE CAN"!!! LoL
Thanks Demer for your response.
I have another ? what language is the BMS4 code written in??
Long live F4!
TAGMAN
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Hi Tagman,
If it was that easy it would already have been done……HAHAHAHA!!!
I do not have the current BMS code,the one I have is 5-6 year’s old.
As well,I am NOT,nor is anyone else on this Theater team, a BMS developer…we are all FREELANCE Falcon Dev’s.To answer your question,most of the code was written in C,then when C++ came along they(MPS,Gilman and the boyz’) changed to that Language(Trusting MS that it was Backward’s compatible…HAHahaha)
I do not have a strong background in C\C++,but, I do have a degree in Fortran\ASCII coding,so that help’s me a bit.Ask me to dial down your Laser cutting robot to an Nth,yeah I can do that for ya’.Ask me to fix some Syntax in Falcon…I defer\refer to Dr.Fred…hahahaha!!!
demer
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Okay thanks,
I hope you guys dont mind then me talking to others about this then outside forum regarding C++, you know I played with Boreland C++ seudo code and running code thru software 17 years ago, damn I am getting old.
I wasn’t any good at it but have some insight to how it works.
I can post this info in an I.T. Forum I refer to every now and then, they are a knowledgeable bunch, needed help getting my home network running and some script. I lost the link to them in my favorites that I had but will find it in my notes somewhere.
We all need like Bill Gates or something for F4, bing, bang done. LoL.
So if you all don’t mind I ask them for help and to post message in this forum if any interest.
You know, I am aware that theaters and campaigns would have heaps of work go into them, I’m no spring chicken but honestly the sim looks almost complete without knowing or standing from outside it really is awesome. I love it, its hard to stop saying that. Doh!
So I feel the need to assist where ever possible.
If you want to PM any details to post around will do!
Heaps of retired oldies hang around I.T. communities, try there guys! Especially C++ coders.
IMHO, is to look for someone who is retired and has the skills with BMS4 code language, and offer to help build it further and make it so it can be moved into further newer versions in the near future like say open code format.
I never say it cant be done its how to do it.
I never thought MSDOS would be inbuilt, remember all the floppy disks with NT.4 now windows 8 coming, Wow.
Anyway, I will try here first http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-71.html they have been around for years.
Also here http://it.toolbox.com/ , if its okay not a problem for me.
Long live F4!
TAGMAN
Regards
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in this way… a much smaller island-type theater could be done like Guam, and Iwo Jima. Falkland could be too big( and very poor SAT image). Canal area in Panama theater could use PR tiles too.
Is this what you meant Old Friend???:
I made this for you this AM….Do you want the “Flying in BMS” file’s???
I’ll give them to you,and you can tile it and call it your own,as long as you don’t start dropping in B17’s and ZERO’s…:rofl::mrgreen:
demer -
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Is this what you meant Old Friend???:
I made this for you this AM….Do you want the “Flying in BMS” file’s???
I’ll give them to you,and you can tile it and call it your own,as long as you don’t start dropping in B17’s and ZERO’s…:rofl::mrgreen:
demerlooks great - if it’s your next project, i don’t mind helping tiling…ALL SAT tile?
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looks great - if it’s your next project, i don’t mind helping tiling…ALL SAT tile?
Sure, we can put it on the plate for next project and yes, I’ll cut the SAT tile’s for you.
BUT……I want to get the Hawaii Theater ALPHA done and out the door first.
Not only for the tiling issue,but also am curious to see what type of game play can be had for the end user.
If they cannot ENDGAME in campain’,then the island theaters turn out to be just another pretty Tactical Engagement theater.
IMHO,somebody else, has PLENTY of those to choose from…:mrgreen:demer
(BTW…I see your already ramping up your prop plane’s…:rofl:)
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Ooohkay!!!
Did some test’s\research this AM on the supposed 256sets\4096tiles limit……
Looked at Jammers rewrite of the TerrTex.cpp back in 2003.
/***************************************************************************\ TerrTex.cpp
xxxx “Jammer” xxxxxxxxx
15Oct03- Begin Major Rewrite
***************************************************************************/
(This one Jammer,don’t know if it’s current though???)
Could NOT find a MIN\MAX DEFINE on sets\tiles.Saw a MAX of 1024 for size though.
So I decided to rewrite the BIN in Hawaii and import a BUNCH of set’s\tile’s in Monster’s tool and see if it coughed.It didn’t:
:shock:
Then,I filled out the set’s with random tile’s to exceed 4096 tile’s to see how the .exe handled it……Guess what???..it did not cough either!!!:
It rendered what I thought it would in the bubble(the random tiles).
Though this NEED’s further testing,I truly believe we are safe to exceed the norm’s in BMS.
In conclusion,what we have been told from “YKW’s” site for year’s is, I believe, BS.The “Sky is the Limit”……hahahaha!!!
demer - Begin Major Rewrite
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In conclusion,what we have been told from “YKW’s” site for year’s is, I believe, BS.
The “Sky is the Limit”……hahahaha!!!
demerWell I don’t really think you can blame anyone over there. They would have NO idea that there may have been a code change in BMS. Just like they probably don’t know there has also been a code change in FF that allows for more than what has been posted in the years past at PMC, and/or information updated.
Also, you are not even using half your tiles which would lead me to believe you are using way below 256 sets so that could possibly be why BMS is not puking on it. Use them all and then see.(further testing, I know)
RAM22(Vactationing, HAHA)
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@RAM22:
Well I don’t really think you can blame anyone over there. They would have NO idea that there may have been a code change in BMS. Just like they probably don’t know there has also been a code change in FF that allows for more than what has been posted in the years past at PMC, and/or information updated.NOT blaming anyone…"We don’t know,what we don’t know"BUT we CAN find out!!!
Also, you are not even using half your tiles which would lead me to believe you are using way below 256 sets so that could possibly be why BMS is not puking on it. Use them all and then see.(further testing, I know Yes,but that’s how we get thar’ from thar’ ;))
RAM22(Vactationing, HAHA)
Yes,I agree,the newer .exe’s seem to not be loading the entire list as in year’s past.Hence, I think only those that are ahead or in your “Bubble” ATM,I think,and Jammer\Baldeagle correct me if I’m wrong,the rest are dropped from Memory til’ called again???Maybe they are….DUNNO ATM!!!Some,like the “SEATILE” are used +one million time’s in game,in that case it only load’s\read’s in that ONE Tile ONE time.
Soooooo…if this is the case with the newer .exe’s. I cannot see a problem.
If so,I cannot see a LIMIT on tile’s\set’s in Falcon…!!!(you know I’ll push it, if there is…HAHAHA:twisted:)Enjoy your Vaca’mation and catch sum’thin,
Dave -
Demer,
what is that application in your picture above “BIN Editor V3.4.2”? I don’t recognize that….?Thx!
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if you need any info, I live in Maui so feel free to ask.