Tactics, tips, knowledge sharing.
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Also, does anyone know if they get a RWR warning when you fire the AIM-120 in TWS-mode? To me it seems when I fire on soft-locked targets in TWS they dont go defensive, as if they dont know that the have missiles inconoming…
As Lift-V already pointed out, no detection of the 120 until pitbull. Also, when in TWS-mode only “soft-lock” the target. By “soft-locking” in TWS the enemy will not get a lock tone from your F-16 on their RWR. So, enter TWS, “soft-lock”, Fire 120 and until pitbull they wont even know you’ve fired at them (unless of course they see the smoke trail from the missle).
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@Lift~Vector:
On launching the AMRAAM on a buddy lock from datalink.If you think about how the missile works…ask yourself who is guiding the missile until it goes Pitbull? Launching platform right!?
I don’t understand what you mean. If i have a datalinked target my system knows where the target is, how is that different from target information provided from my own radar? If the AMRAAM would be guided through radar as the Sparrow that would be a different story (but then maybe one could set the Sparrow to follow the radar reflections by your buddys radar). I believe the Su-25T’s employ a similar tactic with their Shkval’s and Vihkr’s…
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So…
1. Maintain situational awareness (with the help of wingman)
2. Narrow radar search as much as possible
3. Find terrain for escapes
4. Try to have altitude advantage on the bogeySeems all very good tips I was thinking about one thing. It seems that its almost always best to be at as high altitude as possible (against bandits and defeating incoming SAM missiles). Wouldnt it be best to just always fly the F-16 at its maximum altitude? The high-altitude SAMs tend to get destroyed early on in the campaign. What do you think?
It’s not always best to fly the F-16 at maximum altitude but of course given the situation that your not in any type of threat and you can defeat any missile if your launched upon than you can fly at max altitude (30,000 to 40,000 speed > 400knots). In other words, you have to fly at an altitude where you can perform a defense maneuver without bleeding off energy. For example, if you have to create distance from an incoming missile. Performing a split S will hurt you because your losing energy and your basically a target that’s not moving away from the missile. You want to pitch down (20 degrees) to gain more speed and drag that missile down to earth as you further create distance by beaming it. Also, in a campaign situation you should have setup boxes of area (STPT pointers) where you can drag the bogey and engage or dogfight the bogey with friendly ground forces or away from enemy forces. Other good habits that you should take into consideration as you fly towards you package objective. You should always scan every landscape, landmark, and airspace to have a picture of save zones to fly to if in trouble.
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I dont know if this is already covered somewhere, but is it possible to fire the Amraam at a datalinked target (from your wingman) with your own radar off? The missile is guided using a datalink between you and the missile and not your radar so i guess in theory it would work, right? I guess it depends on things like the update rate of the datalink between you and your wingman and other factors… Anyone tested it in FBMS?
I haven’t tested that out and not sure if it works that way. I do have a tactic that could work in that sense. If your wingman locks up a target and either datalinks or you located his locked target on you HSD. You can get close within 10 or 15nm radar off and making sure you select BORE mode for a MADDOG launch. Doing so will enable you to sneak in and fire of your aim-120 so that the missile can auto-lock the target by itself but keep in mind that your wingman or other friendly jets are not close by.
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Paveway
I totally agree with you, it is really what one should do to keep its Situational awarness.
But one thing is for sure … the menace on the ground will limit you in your option for defensive manouvers against an air threat.
I wonder what kind of rules of engagement here are when it is at the first days of war, a lot os SAMS, and detection radars etc …looking for you …
This actually where you see, the advantage of having a silent hunter like the F-22 in your arsenal, i was also considering the fact that like Ragnarda said, altitude is a good firend.
When i look at how powerfull an F-22, Urofighter, Rafale in terms of engine thrust is, … i start to understand why htey can be a key in air combat.
Not only for dogfight, but also for gaining altitude quickly.
From both of you with your exprience in BMS, do you know if the AI i hte F-22 or Eurofighter takes adavantage of that capaicity ?
thans guy for sahring
I think that the F-22 or any other AI fighter jets is computed to act the same in an defense or offense engagement but of course F-22 has a more superior capability. If you have one in your campaign it would not hurt to bring one with you as an escort if you really need one. During the start of a campaign I would make sure that E-8 is there to give you more info on ground units. As you plan out your mission make sure you setup STPT points of area’s of interest such as DMZ line between friend and foe, Dogfight zones, friendly forces zones and an area where you don’t want to be stuck in. Also bring a HTS pod with you could help as well.
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I think that the F-22 or any other AI fighter jets is computed to act the same in an defense or offense engagement but of course F-22 has a more superior capability. If you have one in your campaign it would not hurt to bring one with you as an escort if you really need one. During the start of a campaign I would make sure that E-8 is there to give you more info on ground units. As you plan out your mission make sure you setup STPT points of area’s of interest such as DMZ line between friend and foe, Dogfight zones, friendly forces zones and an area where you don’t want to be stuck in. Also bring a HTS pod with you could help as well.
Thank you Paveway,
Yes during Campaigns i really pay close attention to what i see in my UI map, i’m looking at all the potential threats i could encounter and look for friendly zones, and like you said, it is really a good idea to place steer points where you know friendly air defence is on the ground. It is a real world tactic, i read this book where the story about The Dutch pilot shooting down the Mig-29 in the balkans. The Mig-29 at one moment was trying to force the F-16 MLU to chase him into the engagement zone of a sam site.
the original manual of Falcon, where at the end a mission in Falcon is described is useful too in terms of tips.
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I dont know if this is already covered somewhere, but is it possible to fire the Amraam at a datalinked target (from your wingman) with your own radar off? The missile is guided using a datalink between you and the missile and not your radar so i guess in theory it would work, right? I guess it depends on things like the update rate of the datalink between you and your wingman and other factors… Anyone tested it in FBMS?
I have read the comments of the other on this thread and i agree with them, i don’t think it works like that in real life.
from my understanding of the AIM-120 mechanics, the missile when it is shot is fed via datalink from the radar of the F-16. So basically it passes on to him information in a silent way if you are in TWS mode.
But i don’t think with the knowledge i have on this that the missile can guide on datalink information solely, it needs a radar connection.
You can actually assign a target via datalink to your wingman, but the wingman has actually to lock on the target.
Data link, gives only data information, but not tracking solution.
this is what i think and guess from what i know.
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vids guys vids… the ILS vid is a milestone.
Arty, indeed it is a good idea, but it is kinda complex.
maybe with ACMi tapes it will work.
But i don’t really know how to do it, and for recording videos i only have fraps the freeware, it only allows me to record for 60 seconds …
Do you know by any chance a free software that i could use to record in the cockpit what goes on ?
If yes, i will try when i have time to do what is written by all of you guys.
tutorials are always good.
spooky
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Spooky…google the crack exe for FRAPS.And you will be able to record unlimited.But it will be in 60 sec. bits of film is all.
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Hi Lift-Vector
Okay i do that, but what does it mean in 60 sec bits of film ? …im not really of computer or video language.
spooky
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Oh…sry.I meant you will be able to record for MORE than 60 second bits of film.For example.Say you record an ACMI tape that last 5min. you will get it all but it will be divided into more than 1 clip is all.
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Thank you, okay i will do that
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I don’t understand what you mean. If i have a datalinked target my system knows where the target is, how is that different from target information provided from my own radar? If the AMRAAM would be guided through radar as the Sparrow that would be a different story (but then maybe one could set the Sparrow to follow the radar reflections by your buddys radar). I believe the Su-25T’s employ a similar tactic with their Shkval’s and Vihkr’s…
Chk here on how the missile works.It is great article.Then you will be able to deduce it,s capabilities better than I can.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?150-AMRAAM-Pilot-Guide
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@Lift~Vector:
Chk here on how the missile works.It is great article.Then you will be able to deduce it,s capabilities better than I can.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?150-AMRAAM-Pilot-Guide
Yes I’ve read that article and it says nothing about firing at data-linked targets. And from my point of view there’s no logical reason why it shouldnt be possible. Spooky commented that the datalink is’nt a “tracking solution” but i disagree. The datalink target contains everything your computer needs to guide the missile to the target (altitude, range, vector, speed and attitude; right?). Again as i wrote before, the Amraam is guided by commands through a data link between your fighter and the missile. It is’nt radar beam-riding or anything else like other missiles, so in theory it isnt dependent on your radar. I’m sorry that i hijacked this thread because it wasnt meant to discuss this particular thing, maybe we should move it to a new thread?
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I have read the comments of the other on this thread and i agree with them, i don’t think it works like that in real life.
from my understanding of the AIM-120 mechanics, the missile when it is shot is fed via datalink from the radar of the F-16. So basically it passes on to him information in a silent way if you are in TWS mode.
But i don’t think with the knowledge i have on this that the missile can guide on datalink information solely, it needs a radar connection.
You can actually assign a target via datalink to your wingman, but the wingman has actually to lock on the target.
Data link, gives only data information, but not tracking solution.
this is what i think and guess from what i know.
IRL its possible to fire an AMRAAM and have your wingman guide it to the tgt because a few years back an exercise was run using F22s and Superhornets. The superhornet just carried lots of Aim120s and acted as launch platforms for the AMRAAMs while the F22s must have used TWS to engage multiple tgts at once. The exercise had more than twice the number of enemy aircraft and from what I recall they won. Although it was an exercise I think from that there must be a way to guide 120s via datalink etc. Can’t remember the exercise name etc its on the net somewhere.
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I don,t doubt the verbosity of your statement SUBS.And to RagnarDa my point was how can we deduce if you can or can,t….Not that I know for sure one way or the other.Because in the article the author puts emphasis on the statement “guided by the HOST platform”.But the missile as we know receives update data from a datalink with the launching A/C.If in turn this data comes from a buddy A/C would not the data be the same.I agree yes.But the data would not be timely or as accurately updated to the track file would be my concern.But what would be the point if you were not in position to fire and get a kill.And would you not have better results with your own data from TWS mode.If the goal was simply to fire undetected?After all that is the whole point of using TWS .
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Yes I’ve read that article and it says nothing about firing at data-linked targets. And from my point of view there’s no logical reason why it shouldnt be possible. Spooky commented that the datalink is’nt a “tracking solution” but i disagree. The datalink target contains everything your computer needs to guide the missile to the target (altitude, range, vector, speed and attitude; right?). Again as i wrote before, the Amraam is guided by commands through a data link between your fighter and the missile. It is’nt radar beam-riding or anything else like other missiles, so in theory it isnt dependent on your radar. I’m sorry that i hijacked this thread because it wasnt meant to discuss this particular thing, maybe we should move it to a new thread?
This is the right thread,
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So it pretty much comes down the quality and speed of the data-link between you and your buddy? If nothing else the missile guidance when firing on a DL-target would not be as good as if the target info was from the missiles own platform. Since no-one of us actually knows how it is in IRL (i guess?) we sort of have to rely on educated guesswork or deduction as you put it. But the more I think of it, i realise that IF its possible to fire Amraams on DL-targets then it should be in the sim because its a pretty HUGE deal. I dont think it would be a very big thing coding-wise to be able to “lock-up” DL-targets thats already in the FCR-display anyway. Also, imagine F-22’s firing at targets locked-up by AWACS (scary isnt it?).
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LOL…Nice point…:)!
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Going back to what I wrote before about head-on engagement I did a few preliminary test flights with a F-16A block 30 (armed with AIM-7 Sparrows) vs F-15C and i noticed a lot is different from LOMAC:FC2. First of all its a lot more difficult to find him on the radar and lock him up, also almost impossible to maintain the lock until you are really close (he tries to jam you which he doesnt in LOMAC). The snaking-maneuver doesnt work as it zips the F-16s energy really quickly. The Amraam seems a little bit easier to escape even though he fires them closer to you. The AI acts very differently: the first thing i noticed is that he didnt seem to be as consistent as in LOMAC and did different things each time (wich is good). In LOMAC he would fire on you and continue straight at you. In FBMS he closes in but as soon as the Amraam goes pitbull he seems to break 180 and run away. He’s much less aggressive in FBMS which is something you could take advantage of. Also, he often double-fired at me, but he fired too close together so if you defeat the first one, you also defeat the second one. And the Sparrow pretty much suck now when you are used to the Amraam Esp because maintaining lock was so difficult. All in all i found it a little bit easier do to kill him here than in LOMAC but I havent yet tried it with him being Ace-AI skill… Well, if you consider using up all your fuel and 5 or 6 missiles to take down one bandit easy