Radar Off in SEAD missions?

[sebastianthiago]

Hello, i’ve heard that is good turn off the Radar in SEAD missions before engaging SAMs, why is good this tactic? i’ve heard that and i’d like to know it…

[ASharpe]

@sebastianthiago:

Hello, i’ve heard that is good turn off the Radar in SEAD missions before engaging SAMs, why is good this tactic? i’ve heard that and i’d like to know it…

Well, in the real world…the radar is sort of like a flashlight late at night. You can see it coming from REALLY far away, much further away then it will illuminate. So the person holding the flashlight may not even know you are there. In this case the SAM can see the radar from greater then the distance the radar can see the SAM, which will allow the SAM to launch from perhaps greater then the SEAD planes engagement range.

That’s in the real world.

I have no idea, however, how this behavior is modeled in Falcon.

[Dee-Jay]

Even IRL, it is really not an absolute truth.

Everthing depends on red guys equipements and how they are using it. SA9 et 13 have passive detectors (FLAT BOX), but other systems … Yes, no, which version, are they operational, crew albe to use it … Etc … ?

A more acurate aswer would be (IMO):

Basicaly no: RADAR off/or on does not make any fundamentals differences.
But, could, if red guys are poperly equiped and trained, alert them about approaching aircrafs and sector of arrival before any RADAR positive detection or acquisition.
But what kind of aircraft, enemy, friendly, whay types, what mission, … Etc … No way to be sure it is a SEAD raid.

[SnowSky]

Another reason I can think of, through triangulation they might not only be able to see that there is something, but they might also be able to be longer silent. Instead if there is no one who makes noise, they might do a scan every now and then, giving you the oportunity to notice it on the RWR.

Another thing about radar, not only the radar for the FCR, but also the altitude radar can destroy your sneaky approach at newer systems.
I wish I’d knew the source from where I read it, but I don’t.

[ASharpe]

@Dee-Jay:

Basicaly no: RADAR off/or on does not make any fundamentals differences.

Thanks for the reply Dee-Jay! But can you confirm, is anything like this modeled in BMS.

[Dee-Jay]

@ASharpe:

Thanks for the reply Dee-Jay! But can you confirm, is anything like this modeled in BMS.

You are right, at least as far as I know … , no such feature in BMS.

[Blu3wolf]

@ASharpe:

Well, in the real world…the radar is sort of like a flashlight late at night. You can see it coming from REALLY far away, much further away then it will illuminate. So the person holding the flashlight may not even know you are there. In this case the SAM can see the radar from greater then the distance the radar can see the SAM, which will allow the SAM to launch from perhaps greater then the SEAD planes engagement range.

That’s in the real world.

I have no idea, however, how this behavior is modeled in Falcon.

well, the range at which it can be detected is dependent on the size of the antenna trying to receive the signal.

RWR antennae are small enough that they can detect the signals of enemy FCRs at ranges less than they can be tracked and even hardlocked.

Larger ground based radar sets on the other hand could pick up signals much further away, much like your flashlight analogy.

[ASharpe]

@Blu3wolf:

Larger ground based radar sets on the other hand could pick up signals much further away, much like your flashlight analogy.

I think the flashlight analogy is dumb, but people seem to understand it very well so I keep using it.

[Blu3wolf]

I like it actually, its very similar. The flashlight is emitting at a different frequency to a radar set, but other than that its the same really. Signals bounce around, can be seen by sensitive receivers like eyes at a greater distance than the eyes can be detected, and generally speaking the flashlight gives you good vision in an area but highlights your location to a wide area - much like turning your radar on does if the other side has any level of ELINT gear.

[Moxy]

…ELINT gear

Aha, jackpot! Dedicated ELINT gear is what reliably detects electronic signals (radar emissions, radio emissions, engine blades moving, aircraft and other equipment operating) at long ranges.

[Kuhprah]

If I uderstood this right all so tactical things are in BMS more or less worthless… AI dedects you when you come in range and then it racts. Not mor or less. ?

[Dee-Jay]

@Kuhprah:

If I uderstood this right all so tactical things are in BMS more or less worthless… AI dedects you when you come in range and then it racts. Not mor or less. ?

No clues on my side, but it certainly depends on which AI you are talking about: AI aircrafts, or AI Sam. (?)

[Blu3wolf]

@Kuhprah:

If I uderstood this right all so tactical things are in BMS more or less worthless… AI dedects you when you come in range and then it racts. Not mor or less. ?

well AI detect your radar emissions if you are within the range of their RWR (or at least, they have since RP5) sensitivity, depending on the RWR and depending on the radar emission. If you come into their visual range (depends on the skill rating of the pilot) then you are detected, but if you stay outside visual range and do not lock them up, AND stay outside their radar range (like by being below the horizon against MiG-21s for example), then you can sneak around them.

[Shadow]

I don’t think the original question was answered. Was it??

In BMS none of the Sam Systems have a working RWR sub system.

So as far as the target of the SEAD is concerned No benefit.

[Blu3wolf]

@Shadow:

I don’t think the original question was answered. Was it??

In BMS none of the Sam Systems have a working RWR sub system.

So as far as the target of the SEAD is concerned No benefit.

Sure, if the SAM is the only thing on the map. Pretty sure in BMS if you get spotted by an aircraft, ground crew know where you are too…

[molnibalage]

@Blu3wolf:

Sure, if the SAM is the only thing on the map. Pretty sure in BMS if you get spotted by an aircraft, ground crew know where you are too…

Always when I see similar threads I never know what informations should be shared because if you share too much how it works the game it can ruin the illusion and gameplay. The reaction time of SAMs likely is the key but I do not wish to explain deeper. Maybe I will make a test but it is simply hard to know when detects you and AI controlled AC.

[ASharpe]

@molnibalage:

Always when I see similar threads I never know what informations should be shared because if you share too much how it works the game it can ruin the illusion and gameplay.

For me it’s pretty simple: Does turning off the Radar have an affect on SAM engagement range? Just a straight up yes or no is enough, I think, for this thread. Specifics of how the mechanics would, as you said, ruin the illusion.

[molnibalage]

@ASharpe:

For me it’s pretty simple: Does turning off the Radar have an affect on SAM engagement range? Just a straight up yes or no is enough, I think, for this thread. Specifics of how the mechanics would, as you said, ruin the illusion.

Not it does not have effect on SAM range as I know.

[ASharpe]

@molnibalage:

Not it does not have effect on SAM range as I know.

That confirms with what Dee-Jay said earlier, slightly disappointing. I think I will continue to turn off my Radar when sneaking around just in case one day it does have an affect.

[molnibalage]

slightly disappointing

Why? In RL only a very few SAM system can use the radar emission of AC outside up there…