GBU Guidance and Laser Designators
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do keep in mind that the TGP does not need to be in POINT TRACK to lase. If you are in AREA TRACK it will auto lase (in fact, IRL, AREA TRACK is the required mode to be in, so that they can direct a bomb away from the target if necessary - last minute hold fire calls, a schoolbus full of kids driving past the enemy convoy, etc…).
I think (but cannot recall) that if you have not ground stabilised the TGP cursors, then it will not lase. Will have to check the manual on that one.
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Okay, so now I have a whole new set of questions about Buddy Lasing:
How does MY F-16 know when the bomb drop should occur if my buddy is lasing the target?
Somehow my software must be aware of the target to calculate and display the steering and targeting information on my HUD, correct?
Buddies pass GPS. Or use natural or man made ground structure for reference. In a earlier thread is was said that laser designators have an eye safe visible laser mode. It can be used as a laser pointer, I assume. Sounds risky if you’re are a JTAC.
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Now i have a question : what happens if i release the bombs from a low altitude does it lase on release ? also sometimes i release them with no TGP lock , do they just behave like iron bomb at that point ?
If your auto lase setting is greater than the predicted CCRP fall time then it will begin lasing immediately.
The bomb only cares about laser energy. So whether or not the TGP is in a certain mode doesn’t matter as long as the laser happens. The better question is what allows or inhibits the laser from firing. The requirements for the laser to fire are that the TGP by pointed in the no-mask zone and I think not in inertial mode (slaved). Any optical tracking mode (point/area) or zoom level is acceptable. USAF practice is to do all laser designations for Paveway bombs in AREA track at minimum zoom setting (yes even for moving targets).
An additional requirement is that the laser be visible to the Paveway seeker which looks forward. Since the bomb starts horizontal and the laser spot is usually below, the bomb cannot see the laser until it pitches down during the fall. Also there is a short 2-3s period post release that the laser guidance is suspended so it doesn’t maneuver until it’s safely separated from the airplane.
Longer lase times are more realistic than shorter. Published minimum times are in the 8-12 second range. The Falcon default of 5 is too short for reality. The only real reason to use delayed (fraction of fall time) and not continuous (entire fall time) is in situations where the bomb would suffer from flying “bee line” instead of ballistic arc or needing the extra speed for bunker penetration at impact. In most applications continuous lase is just fine.
Caper, the TGPs have 3 laser wavelengths from two laser hardware items.
~1.0 micrometer wavelength combat laser designator
~1.5 micrometer wavelength training laser designator
~0.7 micrometer wavelength infrared pointerThe designator has the switchable wavelength (shorter = higher energy photon). The pointer is a separate piece of hardware without any coded pulse or rangefinding capabilities and at a much lower power. It’s of a shorter wavelength that is suitable for being seen with NVGs.
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The only real reason to use delayed (fraction of fall time) and not continuous (entire fall time) is in situations where the bomb would suffer from flying “bee line” instead of ballistic arc or needing the extra speed for bunker penetration at impact. In most applications continuous lase is just fine.
The “bee line” could cause the bomb to fall short if the release is using a dumb bomb ballistic arc solution.
~1.0 micrometer wavelength combat laser designator
~1.5 micrometer wavelength training laser designatordo you think “training” means practice at a practice range?
or move the device in 3D. ex. Training the gun into a firing solution? Using the training laser mode for ranging. -
falcon default is 7 seconds FYI, not 5. 7 is very close to 8-12.
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It’s for training ranges or other non-combat use. You can use the training wavelength in combat for range finding and LST purposes at reduced range. I don’t think combat LGBs guide on that wavelength but I dunno. I bet there’s a LGB training round that only works with the training wavelength.
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Notice also that Falcon4 doesn’t follow reality exactly, and due to the “GBU missile characteristics” it is not always good to use very long lasing times. Once the GBU is tracking, it will beeline, but it will also fly like a missile. For this reason it is more realistic to use near default values, perhaps 7-10s.
The target exchange could be done with datalink (even IDM has ground cursor transmit) or exchanging steerpoints. I bet great majority of buddy lasing is done on preagreed targets and target areas. For possible targets of opportunity the IR pointer would probably be the way to find the target area, and then just MARK it, and lob (or whatever) bombs to the target area with the illuminator in standby.
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Training mode sounds like a pre-guidance laser.
train
/trān/
verb
gerund or present participle: training2. point or aim something, typically a gun or camera, at.
“the detective trained his gun on the side door”synonyms: aim, point, direct, level, focus; zero in
“she trained the gun on his chest” -
In this case, Training is an eye-safe mode for training (ie : exercising) pilot for laser operation. I think (not sure) that is the mode the laser is using for basic telemetry data too.
The only laser mode in BMS is Combat. IRL, you need Combat laser to guide a bomb, anyway. Training lase does not reflects enough energy for the bomb seeker to detect it.
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Training mode sounds like a pre-guidance laser.
train
/trān/
verb
gerund or present participle: training2. point or aim something, typically a gun or camera, at.
“the detective trained his gun on the side door”synonyms: aim, point, direct, level, focus; zero in
“she trained the gun on his chest”Yes, that is one interpretation of the word, but it is not the meaning the manual contains.
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Buddy lasing can be very complex and one of the reason it is rarely if ever use now a day ( specially on the F-16). In the last 10 year only aircraft I remember seeing buddy lasing ( in the US military) are USMC Harriers. This is more driven by their limited stores carrying capability. Some good thing about new pods is they can see the laser from other sources and some can even find them for the pilot automatically.
Not only do you have to have the correct code to guide the bomb ( each seeker is set on the ground and can not be change in the air on old Paveway II and III, not sure if applies to GBU-54) the lasing source has to be in the correct side and angle, etc. So the bomb can see it. Also, Pavewya II, AFAIK, can “stall” or fall short if lased to early. Other bombs actually benefit from early lasing (i.e. Paveway III)
Other thing to consider is maximum lasing time. Each pod type has a maximum lasing time and minimum cooling time. Additionally they have a maximum cycle ( times it can use the laser). So lasing can be very complex.
Training laser ( as mention before) can not guide weapons, it simply reduces the laser energy exposure and and allows pilots to used it without fear of harming people in the range or civilians so they can use it more freely ( with limitations of course). Combat laser can’t even be used in some ranges.
There is no communication between aircraft and LGB so only way to tell if bomb guided is to see the impact. The limitation is not the aircraft, but the bomb. Remember that all equipment in the bomb has to small enough not to affect bomb flight and it will be destroyed, so making the bomb “talk” to the aircraft just make it more expensive. Bombs like the GBU-15/AM-130 cost a lot and one of the reason is not used as much ( together with that is harder to use and need more equipment, etc.) Even new GBU like JDAMS will not “talk”. You lunch them and look for the impact to see if the bomb’s equipment work correctly.
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See this for a nice F-16 buddy lasing vid:
Coming in 3-4… :mrgreen:
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See this for a nice F-16 buddy lasing vid:
Coming in 3-4… :mrgreen:
So is 4.33. Trying to tell us something…?
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How does the TGP know when the bomb has picked up the beam?
My guess it doe not know. The flashing L means the TGP emits the beam and nothing else. (As I know at least with old LGBs maybe latest Paveway series has data link.)
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Okay, so now I have a whole new set of questions about Buddy Lasing:
How does MY F-16 know when the bomb drop should occur if my buddy is lasing the target?
Somehow my software must be aware of the target to calculate and display the steering and targeting information on my HUD, correct?
As I see you simply do nout understand what it means laser guidance. It is literally terminal correction to eliminate the CEP of iron bombs. So the buddy lasing it wors as way that you tell the bomb which laser beam - based on FREQ - should be aimed, the buddy lasing aim the designated target and the LGB platfrom aim as close to that point with any bomb aiming mode as possible. For make easier the aim some AC has or had laser spot tracker for ex. as Pave Penny on A-10. As I know TGPs also can act as laser spot tracker in case even the TGP carrer AC supported by buddy lasing.
(It is strange that literally all of comments are always carriers neative meaning…)
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No there is no DL and no nothing, it’s passive guidance on laser beam, so no the TGP doesn’t know when the bomb picked up the laser spot. You just drop the bomb, lase and hope that the bomb will pick up the laser spot (assuming you did everything OK, it should work…). TGP itself has special LST mode in order to lock on an active laser spot in the area of the sensor.
And BTW, for the OP… I suggest you to make it a habit to lase manually using the 1st trigger detent, as soon as you think appropriate. Although auto also works, in RL AFAIK manual lasing is used.
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And BTW, for the OP… I suggest you to make it a habit to lase manually using the 1st trigger detent, as soon as you think appropriate.
Fixed that for you. 2nd detent will be firing the guns.
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In this case, Training is an eye-safe mode for training (ie : exercising) pilot for laser operation. I think (not sure) that is the mode the laser is using for basic telemetry data too.
The only laser mode in BMS is Combat. IRL, you need Combat laser to guide a bomb, anyway. Training lase does not reflects enough energy for the bomb seeker to detect it.
I assume the CCRP needs slant range to compute when the bomb is released . Can the laser be used? or does it need AGR?
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I assume the CCRP needs slant range to compute when the bomb is released . Can the laser be used? or does it need AGR?
yes, the laser can be used for slant range. The laser IIRC is a higher priority sensor than the FCR for determining slant range.
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Fixed that for you.
Thanx! I changed my post
2nd detent will be firing the guns.
Yes but in real only if you are in guns mode, what we have currently in 4.32 is wrong.