Modelling Organisation
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Just a little point.
Do not trust too much blueprints. Most of them are wrong.
Before starting a project, always take inspiration first by watching during one day or two, it depends on you, as much pictures as you can of the bird you want to recreate. You will then instantly identify which points of blueprint are not accurate. It is really important to have different sources before starting modelling.
Just my little 100 yens!
Kind regards,
Radium
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Hi guys.
Just joined the forum yesterday and Iâm interested in doing some modelling but noticed that the 1st post in this thread hasnât been edited since Nov 2015âŚâŚ Is the information in the 1st post up to date with the latest version of Falcon 4 BMS 4.33 U3?
The quoted model triangle limit seems very low for modern game models: 30,000 triâs = 15,000 polyâs: does that include any cockpit model too?
Also I work with Maya 2016; are there any F4BMS exporters and tools specifically designed for Maya(I havenât found any in my search)? Although I presume I could export any work in Maya via FBX to 3dsMax and export into F4BMS that way.
The 3dsMax version I would have available to me for F4BMS model export procedures would be â3dsMax 2010X64â, would there be any problems with the exporters using this version?
As a new member here Iâm just trying to get a feel for what works for the current F4BMS modding procedures and what doesnât as there is a lot of old, I presume outdated, information(and maybe some outdated mod-tools too?) on the forum that wonât be relevant anymore?
Thanks guys!:D
Hawk.
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Hi guys.
Just joined the forum yesterday and Iâm interested in doing some modelling but noticed that the 1st post hasnât been edited since Nov 2015âŚâŚ Just wondering if the information in the 1st post up to date with the latest version of Falcon 4 BMS 4.33 U3?
I noticed the quoted model triangle limit seems very low for modern game models: 30,000 triâs = 15,000 polyâs: does that include any cockpit model too?
Also I work with Maya 2016; are there any F4BMS exporters and tools specifically designed for Maya too anywhere(I havenât found any in my search)? Although I presume I could export any work in Maya via FBX to 3dsMax and export into F4BMS that way.
The 3dsMax version I would have available to me for F4BMS model export procedures would be â3dsMax 2010X64â, would there be any problems with the exporters using this version?
As a new member here Iâm just trying to get a feel for what works for the current F4BMS modding procedures and what doesnât as there is a lot of old, I presume outdated, information(and maybe certain mod-tools) on the forum that wonât be relevant anymore?
Thanks guys!:D
Hawk.
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Is this thread still being updated?
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Sorry If I Ask on the wrong threadâŚ
I would like some guidance on how to proceed on a model to meet the BMS specs and not trouble if changes need to be made on it.
There must be provided LODâs like 4 LODâs for normal and 4 for Destroyed for ground vehicles. Those must be 8 different max files. Right?
About the DOFâs those must be the last thing to do? or can be done before texturing it or before the LODâs?
About the texturing 4 models must fit in a 2048^2 texture with damaged textures. this means the texture area for one model is 512^2. Right? So i divide a texture in 8 segments and use 2 of them for my model? One for model and one for damaged?
(As a side comment for this I believe this is very low⌠leaving small space for details.)For export the best thing is to end up to clear polygon (meaning before export convert all shapes to polygons)? Right now I have modifiers on top of basic shapes like cylinders boxes etc. Should I provide 2 different files? One with basic shapes and modifiers or the last polygon converted is sufficient?
I ask of this cause I believe the basic shapes could greatly help on some cases instead of a polygon manipulation.If I miss something please say so.
Edit: I forgot about textures. PSD files or DDS only? UVmappings? Iâm not good with PS, I use Corel draw mostly and Substance painter and then I use PS mostly for conversion to DDS. I can export from Corel to PS but some times fubars the layers⌠or transparencies and effects between layers.
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There must be provided LODâs like 4 LODâs for normal and 4 for Destroyed for ground vehicles. Those must be 8 different max files. Right?
Not necessarily 8 3dsMax files. All the Lodâs can be in one file if you use layers/selection sets wisely. Also, keep in mind that each succeeding Lod level should roughly halve the number of triangles from the previous.
About the DOFâs those must be the last thing to do? or can be done before texturing it or before the LODâs?
Iâm not sure of your question, but Dofâs and texturing can be done in whatever order you wish.
About the texturing 4 models must fit in a 2048^2 texture with damaged textures. this means the texture area for one model is 512^2. Right? So i divide a texture in 8 segments and use 2 of them for my model? One for model and one for damaged?
(As a side comment for this I believe this is very low⌠leaving small space for details.)Damaged models may not need as much space as the model itself leaving more room for details. Also, you can supply a larger texture that goes into the HiRes folder for those who choose that option.
For export the best thing is to end up to clear polygon (meaning before export convert all shapes to polygons)? Right now I have modifiers on top of basic shapes like cylinders boxes etc. Should I provide 2 different files? One with basic shapes and modifiers or the last polygon converted is sufficient?
I ask of this cause I believe the basic shapes could greatly help on some cases instead of a polygon manipulation.WaveyDaveâs LodExporter automatically converts shapes into triangles. 3dsMax can give you the total number of triangles/polygons in your modeling view using stats.
Edit: I forgot about textures. PSD files or DDS only?
PSD and 3dsMax files are necessary for possible further modifications. Lod and dds are required for incorporation.
UVmappings? Iâm not good with PS, I use Corel draw mostly and Substance painter and then I use PS mostly for conversion to DDS. I can export from Corel to PS but some times fubars the layers⌠or transparencies and effects between layers
PSD is preferred, but anything that can be read by PS with the minimum of errors is best.
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About the texturing 4 models must fit in a 2048^2 texture with damaged textures. this means the texture area for one model is 512^2. Right? So i divide a texture in 8 segments and use 2 of them for my model? One for model and one for damaged?
(As a side comment for this I believe this is very low⌠leaving small space for details.)Ground vehicles not require damaged models. Normal and destroyed required.
It is important that vehicles of one battalion will use the same texture, if possible. It doesnât matter how much space you want to use for each model on texture, donât need to split into regular squares. You should consider which vehicles will be on this texture and how much space each one needs. One more thing, if any vehicle is launcher (e.g. SA-17, PatriotâŚetcâŚ), the missile should also be on this texture.
So I recommend to working with four vehicles in the same time. It is much easier to organize your work. -
On Switch behalf:
Thatâs actually not true.
To get damaged models, models of normal parents need two texture sets, the second one being same that first one but with damages on the textures (burnt spots, âŚ.). Then, you use same parents for normal and damaged.
Thatâs something that should be actually mandatory but it seems people forgot about that.
Cheers,
Switch
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On Switch behalf:
I said bullshit!
Fok my life ⌠this is only valid for Features.
Gonna eat tomato and cucumbers.
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Ground vehicles not require damaged models. Normal and destroyed required.
It is important that vehicles of one battalion will use the same texture, if possible. It doesnât matter how much space you want to use for each model on texture, donât need to split into regular squares. You should consider which vehicles will be on this texture and how much space each one needs. One more thing, if any vehicle is launcher (e.g. SA-17, PatriotâŚetcâŚ), the missile should also be on this texture.
So I recommend to working with four vehicles in the same time. It is much easier to organize your work.The following Qâs are addressed to anyone that knows not just to Eghi.
1st: This thing with the same battalion letâs clear it out.
Example the M109.
To find the battalion it is in I go to Class Table TAB in Falcon Editor. Locate the M109 and double click.
On Class Data Pointer at Data: I click Open.
This opens Unit Data window.
Name is SP Guns and flagged as Battalion.
At the bottom of this window I see the ranks of first vehicle in the slotâŚ
and in there are
M109
HMMWV
K200-AD
M997
Fuel Truck
M998Am I at the correct point? are those the battalion elements?
So I must group those 6 vehicles to 4-2 or 3-3 and if are old I must recreate them and use the sharing texture thing.
K200-AD looks old also and is on the list.Now in campaign in MC I found a battalion where M113 are there also but not in the previous list.
2nd: This thing with the asterisk and the âParent numbers listed with a * share a parent with another object.â
example M113 has it so same parent is used for another object records and those are:
M113 (29)
M901 (30)
M113A3 (544)
AVLM/MS (553)
VTT-323 (748 )
ACRV (755)
WZ-551 (756)
YW-531 (792)
M106 (832)
M992 (3368 )
so it must be generic to look alike those sharing objects? or I just opened the pandora box and I must do all of them so to be separated and unique records each?
Or the team wants them as is and will not make them unique for optimization reasons?
If itâs because those models donât exist to replace them then they should be on the modeling organization list and I - we should start building them. Right?
Or they are not priority? -
Hi Arty!
I am not a big guru of that kind of stuff yet, I am still learning ⌠but I can tell you that a big cleanup and purge has been done in the database to suppress doubloons, old models and unused vehicles ⌠parent has also been deeply reorganized following the cleanup ⌠so the best IMO, would be to send the files (source files if possible) plus LOD and textures to Eghi or me, and we will transfer them to Switch for proper DB integration with good parents ⌠etc âŚ
Too bad that Switch is not on PPL forum anymore coz I would probably be able to answer your questions.
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Thanx for the valuable info.
No prob. As long as the job getâs done this is the target.Found some 3d free models of tanks that are way old or shared parents in the 3d databaseâŚ
I already started reducing one to meet the BMS prerequisites.In case u wonder itâs from http://www.cadnav.com and IIRC we said itâs ok to use them for BMS.
This site is a treasureâŚTheir license thing says:
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ENJOY!
If itâs a problem then please let me know so to stop working on those and start them from zero⌠it even has the M109 Iâm building⌠DOH
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Hey Arty,
yep youâre correct at point one.
But itâs also up to you, how you want to design your M-109 battalion.
Hereâs something from RL (dunno which time frame):
As the HMMWVs and trucks are very general and used by a lot of units, I would not place them on the same texture as the M-109.
But if you want to build the M992 also, this should be definitively on the same texture like the M-109.BTW better try to finish your M-109, youâll learn much much more than if you start converting those existing 3D models (even if they donât look bad).
Cheers
Biker -
Thanx biker.
This M992 is much alike by a first look with the M109âŚ
So it wouldnât be that difficult I believe if the main body is the same. -
As said above, there has been lots of cleaning and fixing in the database. If you want to make some vehicles, I could make you a list of what still needs updating and how the units are organised.
As for that M113 thing, you opened the pandora box. Lots of vehicles use same parents and db is/was full of shit added by previous teams. Not saying they did garbage, just saying lots of stuff has been duplicated, thinking âweâll find/add data/models laterâ, but at the end of the day, they never did.
Iâm more like letâs find data and make model first instead of just add it and weâll finish laterâŚ
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Yeap I heard Pandora calling and screaming⌠:lol:
Well by all means please do so.
We must start from somewhere.
Going totally blind is worst than having a lighted candle, or a flash light or:
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Iâll give you that list by the end of the week. I started but not finished yet.
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Just so you know, I didnât forget you. I was just busy last wk on other stuffâŚ
I already have the list of vehicles types per battalions though, just havenât listed crappy/remade models for all of them yet.
Iâll try to finish as soon as I can. Sorry for the delayâŚ
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No problem at all.
After all I have things to do and the list doesnât hold me back.So take your time.