Idea: Open-source HOTAS
-
I’m pretty happy with my CH set, but it does have its limitations. Generally, from what I gathered on more expensive gear, it’s awesome when it works, but fragile, difficult to repair and most of all, very expensive. So, I occasionally wondered, would it be possible to build myself a HOTAS? A lot of people make DIY hardware of various sorts, and my father has a 3D printer, so possibilities are here.
Unfortunately, I’m no 3D modeler and no mechanical engineer. Fortunately, someone else had this idea already, called Simchair IV:
http://hc625ma.org/
I’m currently in process of waiting for components to build it (some were ordered from China), but I already started thinking, could such a device be made for flying the Viper?1. Stick:
That’s the big one. Simchair IV has a center stick. Now, it does look pretty awesome, but it’s completely unlike what the Viper uses. So, a force-sensing stick gimbal would be needed. Another matter is the grip itself, I saw no designs for a 3D-printed F-16 grip. That one would have to be designed from scratch. I know there are force transducers for Arduino, so perhaps this could be used, but to really nail the design would require, aside from CAD expertise, familiarity with the real thing, which I don’t have.The hat switches, at least, are a solved problem.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3452944/files
The B8 grip from Simchair IV has a nice solution for the dual-stage trigger, though the trigger itself would have to be modeled.Another thing I’d like to look into is a Hornet flight stick. The hat switches above are not designed with the ability to press them down in mind, but perhaps it’s possible to mod them to include this capability. If that could be done, outfitting the Viper stick with a pair of these would be of great help to those who’d like to take the Hog for a spin once in a while. There is an F-15 stick body out there, so it might be a good starting point for that one. I’m also thinking about figuring out a Russian-style brake lever, for mounting to the stick frame.
2. Throttle:
Obviously, we’d want a Viper throttle, and luckily, there’s one:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3447345
It doesn’t seem to be meant as a PC-connected HOTAS, though. It also seems to missing detents. Fortunately, the license is GPL, so perhaps it could be remixed.I would also be interested in some sort of dual throttle suitable for the likes of Hornet, A-10 and Tomcat. I’ve found no projects like that, and considering how these things work mechanically, that’s not an easy matter. The switches that I linked to in the stick could be used, and a KY-023 ministick with a custom cap could, perhaps, be used for the TDC, but the biggest problem is designing a throttle with such long levers that would be both printable and actually work. Also, Simchair-style magnet-based hall sensors would interfere with each other in most configurations I can think of, so a solution would have to be found for that.
3. Pedals:
There’s this, printed and tested by oakdesign, so I’d say that’s covered.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3475445
Simchair also includes a set of pedals, however these have no toe brakes. They are only suitable for helicopters and Russian aircraft with a lever-actuated brake (WWII British ones use this system as well).So, what do you guys think? I think that a Falcon BMS-brand HOTAS for 3D printing at home would be an awesome project.
-
Turns out my idea is not new. I searched around for information on the dual throttle for the Hornet, and happened upon this:
https://openhornet.comBasically, an open-source project of the entire Hornet cockpit. Now, what I wanted was a bit smaller scale, mostly VR-oriented and 3D-printable. However, I do like the idea, and I wouldn’t mind seeing a full Viper pit done that way.
-
5-way HAT: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3641494
F16 throttle: https://www.hempstick.org/The_Official_Hempstick_Site/F16_Throttle.html
~25$ dual throttle grip (like a10): https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12970-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BC-%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B4-3d-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C/?do=findComment&comment=755991
FSSB stick https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7047-My-Low-Cost-FSSB!!!&p=406924&viewfull=1#post406924
In pedals 3 axes from one can be made software. -
In pedals 3 axes from one can be made software.
Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
-
5-way HAT: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3641494
F16 throttle: https://www.hempstick.org/The_Official_Hempstick_Site/F16_Throttle.html
~25$ dual throttle grip (like a10): https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12970-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BC-%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B4-3d-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C/?do=findComment&comment=755991
In pedals 3 axes from one can be made software.Thanks, looks really interesting, especially the FSSB, though it seems to be intended as a Cougar mod. I’ll need to see the STLs and find out whether I can design a handle that would attach to it. The hats will most definitely help with that. The Viper throttle is actually what the one I linked is based off. I think that the models for the detent arch can be found on hempstick as well.
As for the dual axis throttle, it’s not what I’m looking for. I don’t speak Russian, but even if I did, I want a proper long throw mechanism, and this looks like something inspired by the desktop Warthog throttle. I don’t know what are the exact dimensions on that thing, but my CH throttle has an about 10cm track, which gives you 0.5mm per bit with its default 8-bit board, so even if I put 12-bit ones in there (and Arduino is very much capable of 12-bit output), there’s a limit as to how precisely I can position the handle. I don’t think any sliding or rotary throttle is capable of doing much better, even the Virpil one. Now, with a 30cm throw of a realistic Hornet-style throttle, that’s a different story, and a 12-bit board can really shine in such a system.
-
Found a set of pendulum rudder pedals:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4407778
Looks really good, though it uses a few expensive components. If I try that build, I’ll substitute an Arduino for the Bodnar board, and try to replace the hall pots with a Simchair-style magnet+hall sensor gizmo. -
Those are cool!!!
-
This guy also made a stick base and some other hardware, including a helo collective and a dual throttle. Those are rather less fancy, though, and the stick base doesn’t come with a grip. The pedals look top-notch, though.
-
So, I finished building Simchair IV, more or less, minus the pedals and some helo collective parts. I’d say, amazing piece of kit. What’s more, the software is pretty extensible, and it uses Ethernet plugs and cables for hooking the peripherals up. I can certainly recommend this, both as a controller and a base for DIY projects.
-
I was thinking of making the F-16 stick, finding a model looked like the hard part, but it turns out someone already did that:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4544115
It looks pretty functional, though I’m thinking of modifying the buttons to get proper travel. Hat switches aren’t realistic, but I discovered making a hat switch that would actuate in a realistic way (long throw, basically) is hard. -
Or just use real buttons - they are out there, but you have to scrounge to find reasonable prices and be ready to pounce when you find them. I even found a couple real two-stage trigger switches that I’m holing onto for a future project.
-
I’m not in the US, my chances of finding US switches available in my country are exactly zero. Nevermind at a reasonable price. I’ve actually experimented with printing buttons before, with a common tactile button and a spring from an old ballpoint pen you can get really nice results. The stick already has a two-stage trigger, too, the biggest problem would be finding a spring to emulate the real forces, which are considerable (if you know an easy way to DIY a spring of arbitrary dimensions, that’d help).
The only thing that eludes me is the hats. The real ones have quite a bit of throw (15 degrees or so), but also a tactile click, plus, in many cases, a button (fortunately, the button one seems to have short travel). They’re also pretty small, so a contraption consisting of a microstick with pots removed, plastic guides and a few tactile switches would likely take up too much space, in addition to being a huge crock.
-
You shouldn’t have to worry about that, if you are just buying switches - especially if you buy them direct and not as removed from an aircraft or as surplus. Most of them are made by a company called Otto Engineering, and can be sourced off Ebay (I’ve bought quite a few spec switches off Ebay) or directly from a few places - this is one of my favorites, particularly for Honeywell toggle switches:
https://www.onlinecomponents.com/
You sort of have to watch these guys, because sometimes they get overstocks and sell things at really good prices.
I found my trigger switches on Ebay, and also a couple Trim hats…and an Emergency Jett switch I plan to use in a Hornet cockpit project. BUt you have to keep watch and be patient. Real spec Otto push buttons aren’t that hard to find/get. The wildest thing about the buttons is that they can be had in varying actuating forces, with or without a click - and my real Trim switch doesn’t click either…I don;t think I’ve ever had a seat in a RL jet that had clickable buttons, now that I think about it. Not on the HOTAS anyway - on the displays, but not the HOTAS…with the exception of the trigger.
What I really wish is that Thrustmaster would sell replacement switches for the Warthog stick. I’m pretty sure that the buttons on that stick are real Otto ones as it is, and the rest of the switches would certainly do the job for anything we’d like to do.
…another thing one could do is gut a HOTAS Cougar. There are increasing numbers of Cougars appearing on the surplus market as the military upgrades to Warthog sticks. Even if you buy a non-operating one, you could still rip the switches out of it and re-purpose them.
May the bridges I burn light the way
-
Hello Stevie!
Another good tip !! -
You sort of have to watch these guys, because sometimes they get overstocks and sell things at really good prices.
Yeah, and they charge 75$ for shipping alone (to where I am). No good prices for me there. I’d rather make my own controls, 3D printing is capable of producing parts with tight tolerances, the buttons are most definitely doable, though a bit fiddly to design.
The people at OpenHornet state that hats in the Hornet, at least, have a tactile click. If that’s not the case, then the “joystick as hat” solution from Simchair would probably work best. I could add 3D-printed guides, to prevent diagonal movement and constrain the travel. An analog solution has another advantage: it uses up two analog pins on an Arduino, versus four for a genuine hat. Granted, it there are less analog pins overall than digital ones, but this allows you to cram more digital buttons in.
