Baltic Reboot

[Tass]

Alternate Download http://www.mediafire.com/file/uqpd8nmywsbpz8b/Add-On_Baltic_v0.6.2_beta.rar/file

[hoover]

I’m really happy to be able to fly from Tegel airbase in Berlin in this theater. I spent a lot of time in west Berlin during my childhood because my mother’s side of the family comes from there (Polish refugees who fled there at the end of WW2), and I remember many happy sessions of “minigolf” at the Tegeler See and walking over the “Secherbrücke”… good times!

All the best, Uwe

[MadDoc]

Hey Max,
today I made a testlight from WTM to HAM. It was awsome. Ooooh I missed this theater…
I remember how long it took to rerecord the ATC-voices. Bloodhound an I had a lot of fun.
What about LAAGE? I am missing LAAGE because it was our hombase…
Again: a very nice work. Thanks a lot.

[kokumo]

Hey, Max, thank you so much for your effort, sir!!! Long time waiting for this to happen!! Thank you!!!

[DISCODAN]

Is the ATC working?

[MadDoc]

Hey Max,
another question:
How did you made the ATC-Sounds with no airport names?
I did’nt find a “sound” folder…:shock:

Regards

MadDoc

[MaxWaldorf]

For now, the sounds are KTO but the ATC configuration files are done properly so far.

Cinsider this work as being a light version. I don’t know how much I can convert from 4.33 knowing that a lot of things changed since.

I will see with 4.35 if I have the time to try to convert…

[white_fang]

@Max… it is OH… full of stars , army-bases.

Any plans involving strategy elements to the game, like logistics , depots , factories , refineries, power plants ?

Great work

Cheers

[MaxWaldorf]

Well there is already a full working campaign…

Not sure I get what you mean…

Cheers

PS: just to be clear, all logistic is there but the factories and all have to be limited to avoid having too much points produced…
Usually, it is best not to have more than 40 - 50 factories per side for a 64 size theater…

[Cloud 9]

@MaxWaldorf:

PS: just to be clear, all logistic is there but the factories and all have to be limited to avoid having too much points produced…
Usually, it is best not to have more than 40 - 50 factories per side for a 64 size theater…

Hmmmm, lol, explain that to me! If all the logistics are there BUT factories how is that going to be a problem? Factories are essential to the theater. Each one produce points at different rates!! I’m thinking this is PMC logic?? NO!

Each side should have a near equal amount of point producing objectives to make it even, of each kind(example: how do you suffice with a land locked country versus a country that borders on the ocean/sea and has ports but the land locked country doesn’t…how do you make up for that advantage???, SO, if one side has an advantage, which really isn’t going to be a problem, that’s what I’m talking about, how is that going to hinder a campaign? And where are you coming up with the 40 to 50 limit? More PMC logic??

C9

[MaxWaldorf]

Well don’t take it bad but even if I haven’t been really active on the forums, I still have ran dozens of campaigns I edited myself on a 24/7 basis.

I spent time discussing with BadBoy and we tried to analyze the too fast resupply rate that was being seen by users. It killed the gameplay and the rough calculation was not to go above 50 factories per side, 15 chemical, 7 refineries and a couple depots per side.

The points are then distributed to the airbases and camps through the cargo planes and choppers.
I do trust the core team on their information and even for them it is black magic.

Sorry to disappoint but those numbers don’t come out of the hat but were refined after months of observation…

I could be wrong but unless you can explain tha falcon BMS campaign mechanics in detail, I will stick to my experience findings.

Cheers

[Cloud 9]

@MaxWaldorf:

Well don’t take it bad…

I do trust the core team on their information and even for them it is black magic.

Sorry to disappoint…

I could be wrong…

Cheers

It doesn’t disappoint me and I didn’t take it wrong. The fact of the matter is it’s just not totally known, you, me, BB can analyze all we want, but we’ll never catch it all, that’s a fact.

In regard to the points generated, you do have to find a balance and that takes a lot of work. My last post was more of a question asking, where exactly have you found that balance if you’ve excluded certain objective? Like I said each different objective generates different amount of points, AND how do you know how that affects the air lift supply that you say some are reporting? Players/end user, how would they know? Because they’re supply is slow, is it the points generated? Or is it lack of air resupply? I’m not privy to normal end users reporting too fast or too slow of supply, maybe you can direct me to that?

I was on the FreeFalcon team, I rebuilt every campaign they had in the base Korea theater because they were all broken, and FreeFalcon had 3 different Korea theaters packed in to one install, which totaled 9 different campaigns and 3 eras , and got them all running and smooth, with out the end campaign timeout, it was either win or lose, though they could come to a draw. I was also a part of the FreeFalcon team that finally got the Israel theater up and running after years of sitting on the shelf, with full running and winnable/lose-able campaigns, 6 of them. So I have also got good knowledge of how campaigns run and how theater building is done from the ground up. I also can read the code, of course not in BMS as it’s under wraps.

Anyways, I’m still rebuilding the Ostee theater myself, and yep, with everything Tom put into it, all 17,000+ objective that he has in there and situated correctly, with his permission. I don’t have the time due to health and work to do it fast, so, that’s a shame. I rebuilt the then Baltic theater into the Ostee theater over 2 years ago and fixed the most glaring glitches. Tom is now not present in the public eye, but I’ll eventually get it done.

Tom built this theater as an experimental test of Falcon, and I’m going to eventually get it back out.

I’m not criticizing your decision to do what you are doing, was just asking question as to why you and whoever, think what you are thinking. I will say, and I don’t mean to be critical of you, but I believe it should be done in the style and fashion that Tom wanted it to be, a test to check the limits of Falcon and to have a great looking, working theater, that pretty much has WAY more stuff than any other theater out there.

Anyway, carry on!

That’s all!

Cheers,

C9

[MaxWaldorf]

I understand but 17k objectives when the BMS team keeps it under 8k is indeed pushing it a bit far.
My goal is not doing a tech demo like it was intended originally. I am trying to make something that is usable in an MP campaign environment without running at 9 fps…

Right now the campaign I built has 5k objectives and that far enough since I covered more ground than the original one.
I will leave the eye “candyness” for when the new terrain engine is out but still will try to add a couple buildings here and there…

Next focus is on 4.35… We’ll see what can be used from there and take advantage of all the new stuff that has been baking

Cheers

[kokumo]

We have found lots of airbases with trees on the runways. Just a report! Thanks for the wonderful job!!

[MaxWaldorf]

Send me a PM with the ones you have seen.

I am surprised since I checked all of them by hand.

Cheers

[Arty]

under 8k objectives? I believe most theaters are under 3k - 4k objectives.
17k objectives with an average of 2 features goes 34k features and with 4 goes skyrocket 68k features.
Not all are deagregated but I believe you get the analogy which is 3 - 4 times what current theaters have.
I don’t know how fast calculations are done, maybe depending and on hw, but I believe there should be a limit so that the code can complete the calculations, and I don;t know what happens if calculations are not finished… let’s say u have 17k and code calculates for 10k what happens with the rest 7k? not and never updated? or the whole process delays and comes to wanting 1.5 time instead of 1? Maybe the black magic should be deconstructed and reconstructed… one of the reasons many times I was talking about multithreading specifically for those calculation in order to do it right , fast and why not pump objectives to double that…
Now besides those 17k objectives I believe the code has and all the calculations of units, vehicles, weapons, production and resupply, now if those are also 4times more then it’s rather an ouch… sure good to test and take it to the limit, but once you know the limit, if you don’t know the limit… sounds like your super hard work could be not performing as you would expect, and even worst if it’s the cause of problematic execution. Black magic is hard to decipher.

In the waaaaay past ITO went 6k and it had an impact on fps, with no estimation or experience recorded for campaign and calculations… They went 2k and things got better.

Personally I would go either upwards from 3k in steps of 1k each time or backwards from 17k down by 2k cause 17k are way high I believe considering what was already in theaters.

Just for reference:
KTO has 2.685 objectives
ITO has 1.993 objectives
EMF has 6.068 objectives
And in general 128seg theaters are not sugar and pedals as we all know.

Those seem to work fine in regard to objectives numbers. I’m not saying stay to those numbers cause they are… they were told to stay there… and we all know what a pain is to massively add objectives.

Now this (going step by step) induces the issue of spreading the objectives uniformly by category… but no pain no gain…

And 8k might(?) be a good limit for the time being to test and observe.

sure a real case scenario would need about a million of objectives and features for the theaters falcon has, but falcon already has the most populated objectives and units so let’s keep the ball down and see how it goes and what the future could bring.

[Airbuster]

Ram22 / Cloud 9, for almost 10 years, I’ve been following this community and haven’t seen anything in completed form from you, just very bold claims. Please don’t interfere and discourage other creators.

[vAiCon]

@Airbuster:

Ram22 / Cloud 9, for almost 10 years, I’ve been following this community and haven’t seen anything in completed form from you, just very bold claims. Please don’t interfere and discourage other creators.

You dont have to be so harsh lol

@Arty mmmmm lets see what will happend if Ill double the objects in ITO (or at least 1.5x)

[Arty]

@AsafBoy:

You dont have to be so harsh lol

@Arty mmmmm lets see what will happend if Ill double the objects in ITO (or at least 1.5x)

well for a super trooper pc back then ITO was ok… and yea 2k are rather low I’d say…

I personally would go 8k… It’s easier to reduce than to populate… sure you can gather all 8k and flag them like 4k 5k 6k 7k 8k in your source files and then just pop them in in steps… but redoing links etc… ouch.
So if you have them in you just erase them.
And maybe in TE you could have way more (maybe go crazy) but for the campaign caution and a limit should be considered.
So more over the xk steps needs flag’s for campaigns…

[Arty]

And as Polak just pointed out to me if you observe in MC in Objectives TAB it says Max:8000.
So 8K is the limit gent’s and gal’s…

expect nothing good going beyond this…