BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal

[drtbkj]

Good Day, All.
UPDATE 3/14/23- Over a hundred members strong, still learning and growing and having fun doing it. We are proud to offer the BMS Community different things to enjoy. As you can see in the title, this thread has become the Journal of our journey. Your input is always welcome.
UPDATE 6/12/22-We of the BMS Other Fighters Mafia continue to work with the Other Jets(other then the Viper) and various Theater Devs. However, we have found it problematic to keep everything straight when dealing with multiple theaters. Plus,as more Other Jets get worked on , we want to be able to present that to the BMS Membership in a timely matter.
So, we have created the OFMKTO Theater, with gratitude to the BMS Devs for all they give to the BMS Family.
This Theater will come as a one-step Installer. Note: some anti-malware apps may have an issue with the Installer, but the program is clean.
The OFMKTO will be used as a testbed for all new Other Jet development, and new versions will be presented as needed. So, if your jet-of-choice needs help, let us know and future version(s) can address it. Also, the Theater Devs can use the OFMKTO jets for their Theaters as they desire.
UPDATE 2/5/22-Here’s our Mafia Update for the day, and I’m very happy to be making this one. It’s been posted here and elsewhere that the Mafia has been in a phase of “building the infrastructure” to be able to enhance the BMS Hornet, and from there to the BMS" Other Jets". During this time we have “felt the pain” the BMS Dev’s go through developing things. It’s really hard to put a timeline on such things! Anyway, to do this we have been testing using various jets and software tools. I am very happy to be able to finally make the following announcements…
Our testing/developmental “tool box” is now in order. Our “infrastructure” is built
While we remain loyal to the FOM’s( Friends of Mafia) and the projects we’ve been asked to do, we are now doing direct development and testing for the BMS Hornet
And now the fun starts…
1/15/22- Since the July update below I have been using the term " building the infrastructure" when describing this phase of the Mafia’s growth. By that we mean getting the tools to help us contribute to what our BMS Dev’s have given us, and the knowledge how to use these tools. Computational Fluid Dynamics is an example of this. With this we can help further develop the Flight Models of of BMS’s “Other Jets”. I’m proud to report that the effort is starting to pay off. We have now completed the ground performance data base for the Hornet, and that is just the beginning. We are beginning to visualize just what we can do. The actual in-flight part of the FM is " in the pipeline". We’ve come to realize that these things take time, but it is coming. Further, what we learn with the Hornet will help with the Other Jets. Do you love the Tornado? The Harrier? Whatever it is, the Mafia has not forgotten you. We are also seriously looking at skins and "Paint Kits " to customize your jet. I mentioned in the last update that this thread has become the Journal of the Mafia. So, you are invited to look at the current posts for the “latest and greatest”. You are also invited to join our Discord. The link is in my Signature here.
UPDATE 7/30/21- I’m proud to say that the Mafia is still going strong. As I keep getting asked “what’s the Mafia”, I thought an update is in order. We call ourselves the BMS Other Fighters Mafia. That is a somewhat tongue-in cheek homage to the 1960’s USAF group that came to be called the Fighter Mafia. While we’re not adversarial, we are perhaps a bit controversial. You see, we believe BMS is not just a Viper Sim. So, we want to enhance the enjoyment of those who fly the BMS jets other then the Lawn Dart (Sorry: couldn’t resist). So, we’re sharing everything from HOTAS ideas like those below up to and including flight model changes, etc. This thread has become the “journal” of that journey.
UPDATE 12/28/20- This thread started as stated below, but has now grown to the “home” of the Other Fighters Mafia. Our Devs need our help to maintain the quality of the non-Viper jets they have given us. So, feel welcome to post your questions and issues here.

And now, back to the original post…

Just “for the heck of it”, I’ve been having fun with a little project to add a bit of “Hornet Flavor” to our BMS Hornet/Super Hornet. I wanted to share it in the hope that others may enjoy it, too. With PB I’m working with Checklists(work in progress), HOTAS, and whatever else I can think of. A goal of PB is to move some stuff around, but still have it work in the Viper, as I routinely fly both in BMS.
First, I’d like to say that in no way is this a slight against our Devs and what’s been given to us. I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel. As I’ve tested HOTAS changes I’ve realized that the “standard” Viper-type layout works pretty darn well. As I wrote above, I’m just trying to add some “Bug Flavor”. Please keep in mind that since I have a Warthog HOTAS, my testing reflects that. Also, I used the BMS Alternate Launcher, plus a little Voice Attack, to set things up.
I know PB isn’t true to RL, and I can think of at least one Forum Friend I may drive nuts .This is pure compromise. Also, as I’ve tested various HOTAS changes, I’ve realized that personal preferences has a lot of impact here. So, I’ve decided to present the following as a list of options that I have tested, with comments as to why it has or has not worked for me. I would definitely appreciate whatever feedback you’d like to give
So, without further ado, here we go…

1. “Weapon Selector Switch”-This replaces what is normally our CMS switch. In the Bug you select the weapon, and the various modes change to suit that. I think of it as MRM/DGFT in reverse. So, I’ve set Hat 3 forward as MRM to emulate AIM-120 selection, H3 aft as DGFT/SRM to “select Sidewinder”, and H3 right to cancel. This has been my favorite change. It works very well.
2. Shift Function vs. “Undesignate/NWS”- In the real Bug what we use as Pinky/Shift/FOV is actually Undesignate/NWS . I tried it, assigning TMS Down to it for “undesignate”, with NWS/AR as a shifted function. It does work, , if you either delete shifted function from your HOTAS or move DX Shift somewhere else. I didn’t want to do the former, so I tried DX Shift on our normal NWS/AR. It worked functionally, but didn’t work ergonomically for me. So, I ended up with TMS Down down on my S1 button for undesignate, with NWS/AR as a shifted function.
   One thing of note: Using the Alternate Launcher, you can assign functions to more then one button. For example, “TMS Down” on both the "Sensor Control Switch "(see below) and “Undesignate”
3. “Sensor Control Switch(SCS)”- The RL Bug uses this, which does the functions of our TMS/DMS. TMS as is actually works well as a SCS in terms of such as ACM Modes when “selecting Sidewinder”, for example. So, I left it alone. The SCS is also involved with SOI selection( ie: our DMS up/down). For that reason, I left DMS function alone, though I did try DMS Up/Down as shifted under TMS for SOI Selection. BTW, the Hornet doesn’t have a “DMS left/right”. You use the MFD USB’s. I’ve been trying that, and for me the “jury is still out” as far as changing MFD pages with a mouse. For me, as of now, TMS and DMS are largely used as in the Viper.
4. Uncage/FOV- On the Hornet, these are both on the throttles, which are quite a bit different then my Warthog. So, what I’ve done , using Voice Attack,is set up the Throttle POV as a 4-way with uncage, the not shift Pinky as FOV, Cursor Enable, and Cursor Zero. This works well for me.
5. “Dispense Switch(DS)”- The Hornet doesn’t have a CMS switch like the Viper. It has a 2 position with neutral switch on the throttle. When I visit DCS, I use the Hornet’s Dispenser Bypass Mode, where DS fore gives one chaff, and aft give one flare. So, I’ve emulated this on my Warthog’s China Hat switch , fore with CMS Forward for chaff, and aft with CMS left for flare. To make this work you need to set dispense PROG 1 to one chaff, and PROG 6 to one flare. Side note: PROG 5 (Slap Program) and jammer ( using the J key command) are also there as shifted functions. This is working well for me.
   6)Other- Assigned TMS Up to Slew Press as “Designate”, throttle push button as ATC, Comms and Speedbrake as before, and antenna elevation as a key command function on the Boat Switch. Sidenote , Dispenser and Antenna elevation work on either the Boat or China Hat switches, it’s purely personal preference. My advice in this area is select a switch you can reach easily at all times.

[mypc]

That’s great. I think it’s good to try and get a bit more out of the other airframes even if they will not reach the level of the 16. It is a difficult road to try something different with the same avionics or keep everything the same. It’s worth exploring.

2. Did you try paddle switch as NWS/Undesignate? It would be a little closer in feel and I would happily move autopilot elsewhere. That may be too much for some flyers used to paddle/autopilot though. Or change shift to paddle?

3. Using the Viper mfd switches sounds very much like practicality over feel! Perhaps you should have to suffer in the 18!

4. and 6) I like using the Coolie as antenna. I would more likely move FOV/uncage to Boat.

By the way, does the carrier pitch, roll and move in BMS?

[drtbkj]

@mypc:

That’s great. I think it’s good to try and get a bit more out of the other airframes even if they will not reach the level of the 16. It is a difficult road to try something different with the same avionics or keep everything the same. It’s worth exploring.

2. Did you try paddle switch as NWS/Undesignate? It would be a little closer in feel and I would happily move autopilot elsewhere. That may be too much for some flyers used to paddle/autopilot though. Or change shift to paddle?

3. Using the Viper mfd switches sounds very much like practicality over feel! Perhaps you should have to suffer in the 18!

4. and 6) I like using the Coolie as antenna. I would more likely move FOV/uncage to Boat.

By the way, does the carrier pitch, roll and move in BMS?

Hi, Mypc,
2) I just tried your suggestion, and Undesignate on the paddle works but my fingers are too long. I’m bumping up against my pinky on the DX shift pinky. I also rediscovered is that for me at least, a button you have to hold down( ie: DX shift or paddle), is better on the center line of the stick. OR, put DX shift somewhere on the throttle where pressing the button doesn’t cause stick input(like putting them on MWS/AR did for me). The throttle push button (now ATC) is a possibility. I’d like to put DX shift on the Mic switch press, but Boat and China Hat have shifted functions assigned. However, I am thinking of just doing away with the switch functions. Then the Pinky switch is free for Undesignate. As I wrote before, PC is very much an exercise in compromise. But, I’d like to keep the HOTAS positions as true to life in the Hornet as possible.
3) I haven’t had time to practice much since I last wrote, but I do feel a little smoother at not using DMS left/right. That may help with the DX issue. As I get better with it, I can perhaps do away with the shifted functions.
4) and 6) I do, too. In fact, before PB the Coolie Hat was antenna. The only reason I set it up as Dispenser Switch was I use DS a lot more then antenna elevation, and didn’t want it on a “clicking” switch. However, I do like the Boat better as DS in terms of reaching it, so I’ll be experimenting further. I have to say I’m very happy with FOV on the throttle POV
Yes , the Boat does visibly pitch.

[drtbkj]

Here’s a quick update. Today I tried DX Shift/FOV on the throttle push button and it worked a lot better then previously. That fixed the "stick pinky as undesnate issue.

[mypc]

2. When I use paddle switch, I move all my fingers - in that, I don’t leave anything on the pinky. I have very few shifted functions, but I don’t have anything that involves paddle and pinky.

Finding a good dx shift is tricky. I can understand you saying it should be central - I will have to try that. My preferred option is shift on the throttle, but I find the Warthog is difficult for that, at least when F16 controls are mapped. And I agree, you have to place it relative to the shifted functions.

Using the throttle button is a good experiment!

4. and 6) Okay, you’re experience is helpful. I agree, if I have switches I use a lot I like to put them on ‘easy to push’ switches do DS on the Coolie makes sense. I don’t use antenna elevation much (perhaps I don’t do enough AA!). I think others use the “friction” axis for antenna, but I’ve never really liked reaching down to that axis, so it’s currently unmapped.

If the carrier pitches and rolls, that great! It all adds to the immersion. I will have to try some carrier ops!

Please keep posting your thoughts and experience as it is helpful. When I get a chance to do some carrier ops, I will do the same.

BTW, it looks like there is some work on the modelling/textures in the Mods sub-forum.

[Stevie]

…funny…when I use the Paddle on my Warthog stick I use my ring finger and my pinky stays on the pinky switch. Sometimes I use my pinky and ring finger together.

There is currently NO Hornet grip commercially available that has the Paddle switch correctly represented. The RealSim one is actually the most correct, in that it doesn’t include a Paddle switch - the Hornet Paddle is actually part of a box on the stick column itself.

[drtbkj]

@mypc:

2. When I use paddle switch, I move all my fingers - in that, I don’t leave anything on the pinky. I have very few shifted functions, but I don’t have anything that involves paddle and pinky.

Finding a good dx shift is tricky. I can understand you saying it should be central - I will have to try that. My preferred option is shift on the throttle, but I find the Warthog is difficult for that, at least when F16 controls are mapped. And I agree, you have to place it relative to the shifted functions.

Using the throttle button is a good experiment!

4. and 6) Okay, you’re experience is helpful. I agree, if I have switches I use a lot I like to put them on ‘easy to push’ switches do DS on the Coolie makes sense. I don’t use antenna elevation much (perhaps I don’t do enough AA!). I think others use the “friction” axis for antenna, but I’ve never really liked reaching down to that axis, so it’s currently unmapped.

If the carrier pitches and rolls, that great! It all adds to the immersion. I will have to try some carrier ops!

Please keep posting your thoughts and experience as it is helpful. When I get a chance to do some carrier ops, I will do the same.

BTW, it looks like there is some work on the modelling/textures in the Mods sub-forum.

Hi, Guys. Mypc, I’m very glad you’re enjoying PB. I’m happy if I can increase someone else’s enjoyment of BMS. That’s the purpose of this thread
2) Like Brother Stevie, my pinky stays on the pinky, but that kind of thing is exactly why I’m presenting PB as options . Meanwhile, I’m getting much more comfortable with your Shift/FOV on throttle push button option. I’m further motivated since the RL FOV is the throttle pinky. So, I’ve moved ATC to the throttle POV (via Voice Attack),stick pinky is just “Undesignate”, and MWS,A/R is back to an unshifted function on S1. I’m putting some focus on making main HOTAS functions unshifted.
I’m also making progress with using MFD USB’s rather then DMS left/right. To be honest, a more accurate description is “less uncomfortable”, but I’m getting there. It IS adding some “Bug Flavor” for me. It is also helping with minimizing using shift functions on “cheats” like radar snowplow and cursor zero on the HOTAS. ;). One thing that helps me, that may make it more difficult for others, is that I am a left-handed mouse user. My mouse is right next to the throttle
4)-6) I’d like to put ant.ele. on an axis, but haven’t figured that out. In the meantime, I don’t use it that much, either.
The carrier’s modeled pitching is real enough that the Cat doesn’t fire until the bow is coming up. At least it seems that way. I have to say, with all honesty, that for a “Viper Sim” our Devs have put significant thought into carrier Ops.
NEW STUFF-
Our BMS manuals and the 'Net, understandably enough, focus on the landing patterns and procedures. I did some RTFI’ing and found a little on the take-off pattern. Here’s what I found, and Stevie( or anyone), definitely feel free to chime in on this.
The RL procedure I found is to launch, retake control of the stick(normal procedure is hands-off on the CAT[don’t forget flaps and takeoff trim!]), do a 50 ft. clearance turn(to starboard off the bow Cat’s, and to port off the waist) , climb to 500 ft., and proceed on the departure heading out to 10 miles. At that Ten Mile Radial, you turn port or starboard to intersect with your departure course to WPT 2, holding 10 miles from the carrier…
In BMS the waist Cats are not active, and human pilots can only launch off Cat 2( the port bow Cat). Also, the AI wingie tends to hold 'burner longer, go above and to port of you, and at 2 miles turns to port. So, the option I’m doing is to do my right clearance turn, hold MIL and 500 ft to 2 miles, then arch to port no matter what my departure course is, climbing to the BMS Bug “standard” 26k cruise altitude… Launching with TCN on the “MPCD” (lower MFD) is very helpful in determining distance to carrier.

[Stevie]

It really depends on which Cat you are coming off of, I think - there are two Cats on the bow, and if you are coming off the starboard one you should clear to starboard, if you are coming off the port one you should clear to port - object being not to cross a departing jet’s flight path or block the SAR in the event of a cold shot off either bow Cat and someone going into the water. Nimitz Class CVNs actually have four Cats - two at the bow, and two at the waist. Unsure as to how they sequence them, but the deck op-tempo is very quick…

In RL, they don’t wait until the “deck is coming up” to do a launch - I know plenty of guys that have been fired on the down pitch…and I’ve been fired on the down in the Trainer as well myself! It’s all about timing and tempo - when it’s time for you to go, they send you.

Yes - all Hornet CV launches are done hands off, and the jet will automatically capture AOA…in theory - just setting TO Trim isn’t the end all. You also need to adjust Trim for your ordnance load, fuel state, and wind over deck; i.e. your takeoff GWT / CG and any adjustment due to what the Cat may (or may not…) be delivering that day. One of the biggest differences between operating a Viper and any Navy aircraft is how much your GWT factors into operations…from what I can tell BMS Viper ops pretty much ignore this, but in Naval ops GWT considerations are a matter of survival. Same for landing - the wire can only trap so many Klbs before it breaks…and also only so many times.

Post launch holding and entry should be established and assigned to marshal for refuel/push.

Also - “FOV” adjustment in the Hornet is nothing like FOV in the Viper. In fact, it’s not even called that - it’s an EXP switch, and the second one is for Auto Throttles; both on the L/H grip. And if you want to be “more Hornet like” you will fly with your FCR on the R/H display…that’s default for the Hornet.

[drtbkj]

@Stevie:

It really depends on which Cat you are coming off of, I think - there are two Cats on the bow, and if you are coming off the starboard one you should clear to starboard, if you are coming off the port one you should clear to port - object being not to cross a departing jet’s flight path or block the SAR in the event of a cold shot off either bow Cat and someone going into the water. Nimitz Class CVNs actually have four Cats - two at the bow, and two at the waist. Unsure as to how they sequence them, but the deck op-tempo is very quick…

In RL, they don’t wait until the “deck is coming up” to do a launch - I know plenty of guys that have been fired on the down pitch…and I’ve been fired on the down in the Trainer as well myself! It’s all about timing and tempo - when it’s time for you to go, they send you.

Yes - all Hornet CV launches are done hands off, and the jet will automatically capture AOA…in theory - just setting TO Trim isn’t the end all. You also need to adjust Trim for your ordnance load, fuel state, and wind over deck; i.e. your takeoff GWT / CG and any adjustment due to what the Cat may (or may not…) be delivering that day. One of the biggest differences between operating a Viper and any Navy aircraft is how much your GWT factors into operations…from what I can tell BMS Viper ops pretty much ignore this, but in Naval ops GWT considerations are a matter of survival. Same for landing - the wire can only trap so many Klbs before it breaks…and also only so many times.
.

Post launch holding and entry should be established and assigned to marshal for refuel/push
Also - “FOV” adjustment in the Hornet is nothing like FOV in the Viper. In fact, it’s not even called that - it’s an EXP switch, and the second one is for Auto Throttles; both on the L/H grip. And if you want to be “more Hornet like” you will fly with your FCR on the R/H display…that’s default for the Hornet.

Hi, Stevie, I appreciate everything you wrote in post 8, and BTW my FCR is on the right MFD. I like what you write as I know you have RL experience. So, please don’t think I’m disagreeing because I’m trying to phrase things within the context of what I see in BMS .
The launch procedure I described was from the only diagram I could find on the subject. It did show both jets clearing to the right on the bow Cat’s. What it didn’t say, but what I believe, is that Lead(or at least the first launched) is on Cat 1, not 2 as in BMS.
I’d love BMS to model the GWT/CG factors. Maybe in 3-4 weeks…
Please explain “Post launch holding and entry should be established and assigned to marshal for refuel/push”, and how it might relate to BMS
I think it have read about FOV being called EXP, though though interestingly enough p. 1-2-4 of NATOPS calls the button Raid/FLIR FOV. Anyway, for the sake of BMS, allow me to stick with FOV.
You’re right about the ATC having it’s own button on the throttle, my Warthog doesn’t ,though. And, that raises another point for me. As I test these PB options( in the Hornet and Viper,btw) , I’m doing it with a Warthog. That’s what I have. I can just hope I’m not confusing someone with another brand of HOTAS.

[Stevie]

Yes - both the Cats and the Arresting Gear have to be set for the GWT of the departing/approaching jet - every shot/approach. Back when I was working T-45A one of the things we discovered was that you couldn’t dial the Cats back low enough to handle a jet that light without ripping the nose gear off of it…and so the Cats on the Training CVs also had to be modified!

You (and the devs) should be consulting this NATOPS for how air ops are managed/conducted in the vicinity of the CV:

http://www.navyair.com/CV_NATOPS_Manual.pdf

This is the one that actually explains how the “airfield” is operated. It’s a bit dated, but ya gotta use what you can find, and it’s pretty interesting reading…and it does seem to bear out what you say about departing with a starboard offset. I only said what I did because I know a driver that once went into the water off a soft Cat…and then got run over by the CV after ejecting - CRAP! Bear in mind that what you find in the NFM-000 is slanted to qual training and may not be the complete picture. I’ve been out on a CV to observe mixed jet types during quals…day and night. It’s jaw dropping to watch…especially from the LSO plat!

As mentioned, there really isn’t a “Lead” until everyone is in the air and stacked (you may hear me use “marshaled” and “stacked” used somewhat interchangeably; “stacked” being more of an inflight reference")…I guess I should say “joined up”, and every departing Section/Division, etc. has a pre-assigned departure routing to do this. Everything done on the deck is done strictly on a timeline, and the Yellow Shirts rule the deck under the Air Boss until a jet is airborne - so with your ATO what should be happening is that you get a launch time and direction on deck to meet that launch time. Anything more is a matter of your Section/Division/Tactial brief. Depending on how long the deck cycle is and how far the jets have to go to get on station, there may also be an initial tanking evolution post launch - more critical during recovery, though. I find you can generally go “off-script” with BMS as far as operating procedure goes once you understand what BMS will do and add heaps closer realism in a lot of cases.

As mentioned, “the book” isn’t the end all - because there is a library of books, and the CV NATOPS is just one more book in that library. Post launch procedure is covered in the CV NATOPS…but bear in mind that it can always be modified by number of jets in the pattern, emergencies, timeline requirements, etc.

EXP really has more to do with formats that are specifically not FLIR, and keep in mind that Hornet HOTAS makes Viper HOTAS look like a toy, for the most part…talk about multi-functions!!! RAID has nothing to do with the FLIR, forex…and to make matters even worse, it’s sometimes used as a “shift key”.

I’d like to see the devs get functioning and decently modeled arresting gear in place at all shore based airfields that are supposed to have them at a first pass - end and mid-field wires. This will go a great way to them getting onto the CV, and also make handling field emergencies have some more realistic options/scenarios. I think I got some dev feedback in the past that shore based gear doesn’t work…or that the mid-field gear doesn’t work?

You can actually do a fair job with a WH throttle set…if you’re not too used to using actual Hornet HOTAS. Personally, I’m going to have to have a WINWING setup before I’ll touch anybody’s Hornet sim…!

[drtbkj]

Stevie, thanks for that fan-TAS-tic link. You bet I’m going to have fun with that. I’ll be going riding for a few day and during down times I often study BMS stuff. Wanna guess what I’ll be studying this week? Do you have any other handy links?
I only briefly glanced at this, but it’s already answered 2 questions I had. How does Case 1 -3 effect departure, and what speed to maintain?
So, here is the actual Case 1 departure for a Hornet…
“After a clearing turn, proceed straight ahead at 500 feet paralleling the BRC. At 7 nm, turn to intercept the 10-nm
arc, maintaining visual conditions until established on the departure radial. The 500-foot restriction is lifted after
7 nm if the climb can be continued in visual conditions. Jets shall maintain 300 knots until VMC on top.”
Tonight I’m going to get some BMS in, and see what the AI wingie does in a “real” departure.
Another thing I noticed is that BMS seems to have done a very good job with our naval manual.
Thanks again, Compadre.

I’m going to try to get some BMS tonight, and I’m going to see what the AI wingie does in a “real” departure.

[drtbkj]

@drtbkj:

Stevie, thanks for that fan-TAS-tic link. You bet I’m going to have fun with that. I’ll be going riding for a few day and during down times I often study BMS stuff. Wanna guess what I’ll be studying this week? Do you have any other handy links?
I only briefly glanced at this, but it’s already answered 2 questions I had. How does Case 1 -3 effect departure, and what speed to maintain?
So, here is the actual Case 1 departure for a Hornet…
“After a clearing turn, proceed straight ahead at 500 feet paralleling the BRC. At 7 nm, turn to intercept the 10-nm
arc, maintaining visual conditions until established on the departure radial. The 500-foot restriction is lifted after
7 nm if the climb can be continued in visual conditions. Jets shall maintain 300 knots until VMC on top.”
Tonight I’m going to get some BMS in, and see what the AI wingie does in a “real” departure.
Another thing I noticed is that BMS seems to have done a very good job with our naval manual.
Thanks again, Compadre.

I’m going to try to get some BMS tonight, and I’m going to see what the AI wingie does in a “real” departure.

Quick update before retiring for the night. I just did 2 take offs using the above procedure. Upon reaching 500 ft. I did a gentle 10 degree right turn then immediately back to my departure heading. No problems with AI. At 2 miles he started to turn left, as previously mentioned, but immediately returned to formation. So, the procedure as above does work.

[Stevie]

Here’s two more… a couple Navy Training guides. To get back to the beginning of CV ops -

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-816.pdf

This one is what students train to for CV ops.

Getting away from CV ops -

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-1289.pdf

This one is a Training syllabus for A/A section tactics.

Pay less attention to the fact that these are written for the T-45 (which is our Navy Trainer jet now) but more to the principles and learning objectives; and note how Navy ops differ from what you’ve been doing with Vipers. And also compare the T-45 operational speeds to what is detailed in the CV NATOPS. You may find more similarities than I am aware of.

Also - learn to fly to your Indexer and to ignore the HUD bracket…it’s back-ass-ward in the F-16 compared to the Navy one(s). In Navy jets the top and bottom of the HUD bracket corresponds to the upper and lower arrows on the Indexer, and this one of many reasons I won’t fly the BMS Hornet…it just plain messes me up for too many other things I have to do RL-wise. The Indexer itself is the same…similar…though.

Other than for admin, I generally ignore speeds in the pattern because what matters is being on-speed and maintaining interval - and on-speed varies with GWT, so there is no real “standard” for it. I also always land the Viper on-speed…which is far easier than in a Hornet with a proper to RL Indexer because the Viper Indexer only displays three indication/states and the Hornet Indexer has five states. Very easy to capture on-speed in a BMS Viper!

[drtbkj]

@Stevie:

Here’s two more… a couple Navy Training guides. To get back to the beginning of CV ops -

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-816.pdf

This one is what students train to for CV ops.

Getting away from CV ops -

https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/local/docs/pat-pubs/P-1289.pdf

This one is a Training syllabus for A/A section tactics.

Pay less attention to the fact that these are written for the T-45 (which is our Navy Trainer jet now) but more to the principles and learning objectives; and note how Navy ops differ from what you’ve been doing with Vipers. And also compare the T-45 operational speeds to what is detailed in the CV NATOPS. You may find more similarities than I am aware of.

Also - learn to fly to your Indexer and to ignore the HUD bracket…it’s back-ass-ward in the F-16 compared to the Navy one(s). In Navy jets the top and bottom of the HUD bracket corresponds to the upper and lower arrows on the Indexer, and this one of many reasons I won’t fly the BMS Hornet…it just plain messes me up for too many other things I have to do RL-wise. The Indexer itself is the same…similar…though.

Other than for admin, I generally ignore speeds in the pattern because what matters is being on-speed and maintaining interval - and on-speed varies with GWT, so there is no real “standard” for it. I also always land the Viper on-speed…which is far easier than in a Hornet with a proper to RL Indexer because the Viper Indexer only displays three indication/states and the Hornet Indexer has five states. Very easy to capture on-speed in a BMS Viper!

Hi, Compadre. Thanks for the further links!
I’m aware the Bug works differently in landing procedures, indexer differences , etc. For example, if you look at a NATOPS diagram it gives “speed hints” based on % rpm, not airspeed. Keep the tips coming, as I intend to get to that in PB’s checklists and procedures phase.

[Stevie]

@drtbkj:

Hi, Compadre. Thanks for the further links!
I’m aware the Bug works differently in landing procedures, indexer differences , etc. For example, if you look at a NATOPS diagram it gives “speed hints” based on % rpm, not airspeed. Keep the tips coming, as I intend to get to that in PB’s checklists and procedures phase.

Yeah…generally it’s AOA and fuel flow that they key to. Other than that it’s all on-speed.

Learn to do a “Navy flare” too - arrest sink rate with power, and then snap to idle just before touchdown. I had to have a former USN Agressor guy clue me on this technique before I could quit snapping the gear off of the Viper at touchdown!

[mypc]

Basic question, but how do you switch between control setups to move between the F16 and F18? I use the Alternative launcher.

Or, do I have to remap each time?

[Stevie]

You can actually save and load key binding/setting profiles within BMS Setup at startup…I do it all the time when I’m noodling setups or changing controllers.

[white_fang]

@Stevie:

Yeah…generally it’s AOA and fuel flow that they key to. Other than that it’s all on-speed.

Learn to do a “Navy flare” too - arrest sink rate with power, and then snap to idle just before touchdown. I had to have a former USN Agressor guy clue me on this technique before I could quit snapping the gear off of the Viper at touchdown!

REally… IF the “Squid” taught you flying an “Airforce” bird… then yo really sucked :twisted::twisted::twisted:

:uham: :wfish: :jaw: :flame:

p.s… sorry , I couldnt resist… you know it :rofl:

[Stevie]

He flew F-16Ns as an Aggressor/Instructor…but he was a Hornet driver at the time I got his advise. Incidentally, you can pretty much tell a Navy guy flying a Viper in the HUD tape because they land on-speed and not fast like the HUD bracket has you doing it.

…and…I’ve just flown a multitude of Trainers ranging from A-10 to KC-135 to Harrier to T-45A to…so it’s pretty easy to mix me up in a sim. You should have heard the S.O. chastising me for being a “Viper driver” the last time I went to the CV in a Trainer. I was flat on approach, but I hooked…much to his surprise - “wait…you caught a wire?”. What a laf-fest!

[mypc]

I am missing something.

I can’t even use the UFC/ICP to call Tower or Departure to request taxi/takeoff without Com1/Com2/DCS/Rocker/DED etc.

Playing around with the buttons, ICP and the “DCS” on the left, I get a few different results, but can’t lock into a preset frequency and I don’t really know what I am doing.

Is there a guide to using the F18 cockpit? The Carrier Training document assumes this most basic of activities is known and the F18 Cockpit document has only callbacks and buttons listed, not how to use them.