Follow up questions

[persius]

Hi Guys.

I’m well under way to perfecting my Start up procedure for 4.35, but I have some questions I would like to run past you please. I will be as specific as possible.

1. Left Kneepad checklist.
-Is following the kneepad checklist all I need to do for proper startup and departure? I’m asking because in the BMS Training Manual there is a great amount of fine detail to the startup procedure and I’m not sure if I omit any if that will cause problems. For example. I’m not sure if I fully understand Radio Freq. settings from startup to the point I’m taxing out and need to contact the Tower. Aren’t my Radio Freq’s already set for communication with the ATC when I’m starting up?

2. This may a basic question but it’s eluded me for the moment. What is a “SEC check”? \

Thanks again for your help.

[MartinGecko]

Technically I don’t think you have to do everything in the Checklist, some of the test and stuff are eye candy and if you want to do a super realistic ramp start. I typically just do an abbreviated one. Also for your comms, before you start a mission look at the breifing which has a comm plan. I typically do this just in case I forget my comm presets. Usually it’s pretty simple tho. After looking at the breifing go to the grey box on the lower right corner, this is your data cartirage. It has your comm plan. Make sure you click on comms, comm plan, then load. On Training TEs I believe it’s already done for you but better to be safe then sorry. Then you will have your comm presets set. Basically it normally is:
UHF preset 2 = ground
UHF preset 3 = tower
UHF preset 4 is departure/approach.
But yeah all presets are in your comm plan on the breifing.
And for ramp starting the jet, here’s what I typically do:

1. Turn power to Battery
2. Set air source to norm
3. Make sure parking brake is on
4. Set engine fuel to norm
5. Set power to generator. (You can also do this right at the beginning of you prefer)
6. Turn on exterior lighting. (this can really be done whenever you like. I typically do it around this point and keep the Master switch off until later)
7. Close canopy and Start the jet
8. Turn on avionics and start INS alignment.
9. Set up comms
10. Reset FLCS
11. Clear all warnings and master cautions
12. Arm seat (can be done earlier as well)
13. Turn on RWR, chaff and flare systems ect.
14. Forget to turn anti-ice on (lol, don’t forget like me, this is another step that can be done right after you start the jet.)
15. Set ECM to OPR.
16. Make sure your FCR is on, at this point your FCR should have ran it’s bit test and INS should be ready to set to NAV.
17. Set radar to standby (switch it on once you have taken off)
18. Turn on NWS, remove chocks and safety pin.
Now you should be ready to go and request taxi. If anyone noticed I miss anything lmk, my process is a bit sloppy and isn’t realistic whatsoever. And it’s hard for me to tell someone ig cuz I’m just used to getting in the jet and doing it myself. But yeah that’s my start-up procedure. If you want the most realistic way follow the manual and the checklist.

[victor031]

@persius:

Hi Guys.

I’m well under way to perfecting my Start up procedure for 4.35, but I have some questions I would like to run past you please. I will be as specific as possible.

1. Left Kneepad checklist.
-Is following the kneepad checklist all I need to do for proper startup and departure? I’m asking because in the BMS Training Manual there is a great amount of fine detail to the startup procedure and I’m not sure if I omit any if that will cause problems. For example. I’m not sure if I fully understand Radio Freq. settings from startup to the point I’m taxing out and need to contact the Tower. Aren’t my Radio Freq’s already set for communication with the ATC when I’m starting up?

2. This may a basic question but it’s eluded me for the moment. What is a “SEC check”? \

Thanks again for your help.

1. in TE only the comms are already set mostly. except groundops.
a. easiest thing to freq settings: jump in the pit do the startup and Load Comm in DTE page. it will load all presets in comm plan. briefing screen before takeoff.
b. yes you have to contact all concerned agencies during taxi takeoff and departure.

[persius]

Hi MartinGecko
So when the checklist says to check FLCS BIT (as an example) that won’t affect my performance? I don’t mind the “eye candy” so much just as long as I don’t miss some crucial step to fly. That’s my only real concern. In fact, the last time I was flying was when Falcon was when it was just Falcon 4, so that gives you an idea how long it’s been.

Lastly, what is the SEC check?

Thanks again.

[persius]

Victor031
Thanks for your reply regarding Comms.

[CriticalMass]

I would still suggest following the training manual ramp start, do it until its it’s second nature, at least then you know why you are doing it that way.

And who knows, in 3-4 weeks the devs might make one of those optional steps mandatory, then you’re screwed all over again.

[airtex2019]

@persius:

What is a “SEC check”?

Ref. page 20 in BMS-Training.pdf
Ref. bottom of page 25 in the -1.pdf

I thought it was a secondary controller/actuator for the jet exhaust nozzle. But maybe it’s a backup engine rpm speed-control loop? I guess I’m not 100% sure either…

[Blu3wolf]

The engine has two main modes of operation. Primary (PRI) and Secondary (SEC). Secondary is intended as a backup mode in case of battle damage… or potentially just component failure.

The throttle should control engine power output regardless of mode, PRI or SEC, but a large number of the more advanced functions of the engine are not available in SEC mode. Full details can be read in the dash one - section one describes the systems, including the engine(s). You can google the F-16 dash one fairly easily.

In the case of failures, the engine should automatically switch to SEC mode, and still supply useful thrust, although afterburner operation is inhibited, and engine stall protection is reduced in some conditions. The SEC check tests that the engine, if manually placed in SEC mode, still operates correctly.

[airtex2019]

Thanks Blu3wolf … your new job is teaching me how to google for things I didn’t think were so easily googlable … or maybe I just suck at google. I owe you a few beers, if you’re ever in Seattle area. (Yesterday it was: google for “medium PRF” instead of “MPRF” lol … sure enough a trove of relevant results appear, even wikipedia ffs!

Anyway, TL/DR per an HAF doc from ca. 2003, apparently SEC (Secondary Engine Control) is an oldschool hydromechanical backup to the newer, digital/electronic PRImary engine control… some different implications for PW vs GE engine, but basically SEC can’t adjust the nozzle or activate burner.

Sounds ridiculously redundant, but… I had a 2008 chevy tahoe that desperately needed a hydromechanical backup to its digital/electronic engine control unit, that could be switched on the fly. So I totally get it. (I don’t know if GM ever made engines for single-engine aircraft, but I would not recommend ever getting onboard one.)

[Blu3wolf]

Well, half the battle is knowing that something even can be googled. If, for example, you didnt know that the F-16 operating manual is called a “dash one” instead of say a POH or AFM, you’d struggle to google it. Knowledge is power… and while you cant know everything, it can be helpful to know -what- you dont know.

@airtex2019:

apparently SEC (Secondary Engine Control) is an oldschool hydromechanical backup to the newer, digital/electronic PRImary engine control.

Sounds ridiculously redundant, but I had a 2008 chevy tahoe that desperately needed a backup engine control unit, that could be switched on the fly. So I totally get it. (I don’t know if GM ever made engines for single-engine aircraft, but I would not recommend ever getting onboard one.)

Yup, GE designed the J35, but the design was passed onto the Allison Engine Company - which was at this time owned by General Motors. J35s were built by Chevrolet, in fact. At least one later variant of the design, the J71, was used in a single engine aircraft, the F3H.

In the case of the F-16, redundancy is obviously a good thing - particularly when you consider the complexity added by what was at the time of its design, very experimental technology. The “electric jet” as it were.

[persius]

Great. Just when I was starting to feel confident, you toss a wrench into the gearbox.

[persius]

Thanks for that tip. I’ve teen doing a lot of reading in the manuals and my brain just paused for a moment so I overlooked the obvious.

Thanks again.

[Blu3wolf]

@persius:

Great. Just when I was starting to feel confident, you toss a wrench into the gearbox.

Learning about the systems on board the plane will help a lot with confidence. If you track down a real manual and use its checklists, you won’t get stuck in some future BMS update if “eye candy” stuff becomes “mission critical” stuff. The other upside of course being its fun to learn about new stuff like how the plane you fly works.

[sasah320]

If I may…

Usually, checklists works as a reminder, to check if you didn’t forget anything after performing your “scan flow” by memory.

There are some checklist that are “read and do” though, usually the ones for failures or supplemental procedures.

I made a checklist resembling the ones from civil aviation (not real for military jets, of course) to help me quickly check whether I missed somenthing.

If you wish, take a look. Maybe it helps you.

https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?40467-My-personal-Checklist-for-Quick-reference

cheers :yo:

[persius]

Hi Guys.

I finally have the start up procedure up and running. My only question is in regards to setting up my ICP. I’m still somewhat confused with COM1 & COM2. I’m having trouble understanding the instructions/wording in the BMS manual and the training videos I have found don’t clarify very well. Some players only use COM1 while others use both COM1 & COM2. Can somebody please clarify what my settings needs to be for both channels?

What does the BACKUP UHF setting do for me and what frequency setting do I use here? Is it based on each Base’s settings?

Thank you.

[rubbra]

COM1 is UHF and you use this for talking to pretty much everything that isn’t your flight, eg ground, tower, tanker, awacs etc.

COM2 is VHF and you use that to talk to your flight.

But… your UHF/COM1 is the channel that your A-A datalink goes over. So you and your wingmen must be on the same UHF frequency.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rubbra]

Typically you work with presets, so COM1 preset 2 is ground, 3 is tower, 4 is departure. Take off goes 2 for clearance to taxi etc, 3 for permission to take off, 4 to say you’ve gone. Landing goes the same but reversed, so 4 to tel approach you’re coming, 3 to say you’re on final approach, 2 to taxi back.

6 is your tactical frequency, so once you’re airborne, switch to this amd talk to AWACS and setup your datalink.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drtbkj]

@persius:

Hi MartinGecko
So when the checklist says to check FLCS BIT (as an example) that won’t affect my performance? I don’t mind the “eye candy” so much just as long as I don’t miss some crucial step to fly. That’s my only real concern. In fact, the last time I was flying was when Falcon was when it was just Falcon 4, so that gives you an idea how long it’s been.

Lastly, what is the SEC check?

Thanks again.

That’s actually an interesting question, Persius, regarding FLCS. 4.35 shows FLCS faults unless it’s reset, so Martin is right in putting FLCS reset in his abbreviated checklist. However, what I wonder about is skipping FLCS BIT. I’ve had occasional “BIT Fails” pop up and if you don’t correct it FLCS goes to DBU (Digital Back Up) and , if memory serves, the autopilot won’t work.
So ,that’s a choice for you to make. IMHO, I’m with Critical Mass-learn to do it the right way and you’ll be happier in the long run.
BTW, this is also true if you want to fly the Hornet. There’s also a Horentized" checklist in the Mafia Files if you’d like something a bit different.

[persius]

drtbkj:
I appreciate you mentioning the possibility of Autopilot failing. I’ll definitely add that to my startup. Great to know.

Thanks

[persius]

Rubbra:

Your clarification of UHF, VHF and Wingman cleared things up for me, thanks. Sadly, when I read your second post my brain started to smoke a little. I understand setting up COM1 & COM2 (on ICP) for presets but when you mention presets 3 & 4, I’m now unsure how to set that many up. Is there a tutorial somewhere that can walk me through that?

Thanks