I keep shooting down friendly aircraft.

[jack72]

How do you know if the plane you are targeting is friend or foe without AWAC or Sniper pod.

I am flying some TE’s where our squadron is engaged in multiple enemy AI planes. There is no AWAC and I don’t have the sniper pod on my aircraft.
In the heat of battle I have a 29 at my 12 and a F-16 fairly showing on my RWR. The blips are on my FCR are about 20 nm out and cannot visually identify who is who, but the the direction of travel is unknown on my FCR bit it looks like it is closing. I want to hit the 29 before it fires at it can hit me before it is in range. Usually I end up hitting the F16.

Another scenario is that there a multiple planes in the area, where I have a plane locked up….nothing is shown on the RWR and even visually it is impossible to tell if it is and F16 or enemy aircraft. (No AWAC or Sniper pod). I can’t really get close enough to visually identify it and continuing to chase it would be a waste of fuel, energy.
If I disengage, and it is an enemy, they will have a good chance of hitting me…how do you figure out if should take the shot or risk it.

[Alfred]

TMS left if your jet has the IFF, color of blips should turn green for friends. You might even carry a TGP for situation awarness.

[Migbuster]

@jack72:

How do you know if the plane you are targeting is friend or foe without AWAC or Sniper pod.

I am flying some TE’s where our squadron is engaged in multiple enemy AI planes. There is no AWAC and I don’t have the sniper pod on my aircraft.
In the heat of battle I have a 29 at my 12 and a F-16 fairly showing on my RWR. The blips are on my FCR are about 20 nm out and cannot visually identify who is who, but the the direction of travel is unknown on my FCR bit it looks like it is closing. I want to hit the 29 before it fires at it can hit me before it is in range. Usually I end up hitting the F16.

Another scenario is that there a multiple planes in the area, where I have a plane locked up….nothing is shown on the RWR and even visually it is impossible to tell if it is and F16 or enemy aircraft. (No AWAC or Sniper pod). I can’t really get close enough to visually identify it and continuing to chase it would be a waste of fuel, energy.
If I disengage, and it is an enemy, they will have a good chance of hitting me…how do you figure out if should take the shot or risk it.

Without AWACS yes I suspect the AI will have a big advantage because I suspect ID is less of an issue for them but have not tried that for a while.

Without Sniper (which is only good in clear weather generally anyway) do you have IFF and NCTR assuming you have an F-16 with both of those??

IFF doesn’t distinguish friend from foe e.g. if one of your buddies has IFF switched off or on the wrong code then it wont help.

NCTR only works head on I think

Are you running the data link (IDM) so you can see where flight members are?

This might not be practical but is it possible for your squadron guys to call out buddy spike if they are locked by another F-16?

Firing into a cluster of multiple aircraft is asking for fratricide even with AWACs because the missile can still hit a friendly so I generally try not to.

“If you don’t know it don’t go” so without IFF and AWACs visual ID would probably be the only way to know for sure……you get some idea of how important it is to be able to ID things to actually be able to fire in the first place…no air force can afford to shoot down its own aircraft in numbers!!

[jack72]

@Migbuster:

Do you have IFF and NCTR assuming you have an F-16 with both of those??

IFF doesn’t distinguish friend from foe e.g. if one of your buddies has IFF switched off or on the wrong code then it wont help.

NCTR only works head on I think

Are you running the data link (IDM) so you can see where flight members are?

How do you work the IFF, is there a special pod for that?
Same with the Datalink. Do you need a special pod for that or is it on every F-16 in BMS
Also do the friendly AI, have it or do you have to assign it to the other wings in your flight. And do they have it on by default?

[Ernestwinslow]

@jack72:

How do you work the IFF, is there a special pod for that?
Same with the Datalink. Do you need a special pod for that or is it on every F-16 in BMS
Also do the friendly AI, have it or do you have to assign it to the other wings in your flight. And do they have it on by default?

The IFF and data link are already installed in the aircraft just like the radar and radio are standard.
Understanding properly how to program the IFF and data link I think it would not be exhaustively covered here. You need to read the section in the bms manual that covers it. Also there are some video tutorials on youtube that explains the new implementation of IFF and datalink

As for AI, when you lock a friendly aircraft, you would hear him or her call out ‘Buddy Spike’. That would tell you he is friend.
This is from a seasoned and well known author in falcon bms

Another good video is this

.

Just move to the IFF section of the video.
Hope this helps

[LorikEolmin]

@Ernestwinslow:

The IFF and data link are already installed in the aircraft just like the radar and radio are standard.
Understanding properly how to program the IFF and data link I think it would not be exhaustively covered here. You need to read the section in the bms manual that covers it. Also there are some video tutorials on youtube that explains the new implementation of IFF and datalink

As for AI, when you lock a friendly aircraft, you would hear him or her call out ‘Buddy Spike’. That would tell you he is friend.
This is from a seasoned and well known author in falcon bms

Another good video is this

.

Just move to the IFF section of the video.
Hope this helps

Buddy spike not anymore since 4.34…

[oakdesign]

@Ernestwinslow:

The IFF and data link are already installed in the aircraft just like the radar and radio are standard.
Understanding properly how to program the IFF and data link I think it would not be exhaustively covered here. You need to read the section in the bms manual that covers it. Also there are some video tutorials on youtube that explains the new implementation of IFF and datalink

As for AI, when you lock a friendly aircraft, you would hear him or her call out ‘Buddy Spike’. That would tell you he is friend.
This is from a seasoned and well known author in falcon bms

Another good video is this

.

Just move to the IFF section of the video.
Hope this helps

It depends on the theater and Block you are flying if IFF and Datalink are available

For datalink with AI within your flight and package you have to be aware that ut’s only working if you are on Tactical UHF6. AC withiin you own flight should be automatically set to slot #1-4 on Datalink. Other AC within your package you have to assign manually to the other available slots i.e #5-7
In addidtion to that you have to initioate a DL round either oncein ASSGN/DMD mode or if you want it continious in CONT mode

[Alfred]

only block 40 and above will have the IFF

[Migbuster]

@Alfred:

only block 40 and above will have the IFF

F-16A MLUs have them (technically a mix of Block 1 - 15)

[Alfred]

yes the European versions do have it but for US versions bk 30 & below don’t have it which makes me think why the knob on the left console is still included for those blocks in BMS. Was it there idle and to be implemented in future updates of the F-16?

[Migbuster]

@Alfred:

yes the European versions do have it but for US versions bk 30 & below don’t have it which makes me think why the knob on the left console is still included for those blocks in BMS. Was it there idle and to be implemented in future updates of the F-16?

I have checked a few of the Block 30s and they seem to have the older IFF / TACAN panel which would be correct for the 1980s Block 30 (shown in the manual) and most others.

It is important to know that every F-16 from Block 1 has IFF and an IFF panel but it is just the Transponder part they have (it can respond to interrogation from other aircraft etc)

The bit that a lot of F-16s didn’t have was the Interrogator part also denoted by having Bird Slicers in the Nose which is what is needed here.

Modern ANG F-16 Block 30s have the IFF Interrogator with Bird Slicer’s and are similar to modern F-16CM Block 40 to 52 however that version is not modelled in BMS currently.

[Stevie]

@jack72:

How do you know if the plane you are targeting is friend or foe without AWAC or Sniper pod.

I am flying some TE’s where our squadron is engaged in multiple enemy AI planes. There is no AWAC and I don’t have the sniper pod on my aircraft.
In the heat of battle I have a 29 at my 12 and a F-16 fairly showing on my RWR. The blips are on my FCR are about 20 nm out and cannot visually identify who is who, but the the direction of travel is unknown on my FCR bit it looks like it is closing. I want to hit the 29 before it fires at it can hit me before it is in range. Usually I end up hitting the F16.

Another scenario is that there a multiple planes in the area, where I have a plane locked up….nothing is shown on the RWR and even visually it is impossible to tell if it is and F16 or enemy aircraft. (No AWAC or Sniper pod). I can’t really get close enough to visually identify it and continuing to chase it would be a waste of fuel, energy.
If I disengage, and it is an enemy, they will have a good chance of hitting me…how do you figure out if should take the shot or risk it.

So…you can’t let your adrenaline get the best of you. Basic ROE is - if you don’t know/can’t tell, you don’t shoot. Also, you have to have a clear line of fire - if there is a known friendly in the background, you don’t shoot because you do not have a clear line of fire. Also a good idea to call that guy to “commit”, and then bug to a suitable geometry for support.

You can also cursor over the targets on your radar page and cross-check them with your RWR to sort who is whom, and where. Call AWACS to “Declare” against your target, if AWACS is available. Also - If you have a hit on your radar, you should also have an Aspect Vector showing - so you should know just what direction the bogey is going, hot/cold/turning.

Depending on the scenario, IFF isn’t the end all either - it’s just another factor in the mix of the above. Yes, it’s a lot to watch…but it’s how it’s done in RL.

[drtbkj]

@jack72:

How do you know if the plane you are targeting is friend or foe without AWAC or Sniper pod.

I am flying some TE’s where our squadron is engaged in multiple enemy AI planes. There is no AWAC and I don’t have the sniper pod on my aircraft.
In the heat of battle I have a 29 at my 12 and a F-16 fairly showing on my RWR. The blips are on my FCR are about 20 nm out and cannot visually identify who is who, but the the direction of travel is unknown on my FCR bit it looks like it is closing. I want to hit the 29 before it fires at it can hit me before it is in range. Usually I end up hitting the F16.

Another scenario is that there a multiple planes in the area, where I have a plane locked up….nothing is shown on the RWR and even visually it is impossible to tell if it is and F16 or enemy aircraft. (No AWAC or Sniper pod). I can’t really get close enough to visually identify it and continuing to chase it would be a waste of fuel, energy.
If I disengage, and it is an enemy, they will have a good chance of hitting me…how do you figure out if should take the shot or risk it.

Jack,
The 4 tools you have in IDing a threat , as you know, are

1. AWACS. Don’t shoot with out a declare call
2. IFF
3. RWR indication
4. TGP, put that isn’t very useful until you’re in close
   The more of these 4 “boxes you can check”, the better. But in your scenario where none of them is available, you shouldn’t shoot. As Stevie said , if in doubt-don’t, when friendlies are involved. So, what should you do? Are are some pointers a MP Bud gave me.
5. Keep your speed up to your jet’s max. corner velocity.
6. Have an evasion plan set in your mind for when/if he/she shoots.
7. Don’t get sucked into IR missile range. If you don’t at least have a RWR indication, beam the bogie and extend. If he has to search for you, he should show up in the rwr at some point
8. As a general version of the above, don’t get so target fixated you get sucked in to where you can’t evade if he does shoot
9. A good evasion I’ve found is, when he shoots, beam him to break his jet’s lock on you, then turn away and dive, dump chaff/flares, then when you have a lot of speed built up , climb . Have your wingman “clear your six”

[Stevie]

…this brings up another point - you should learn when and how to exit a fight…something I myself have never learned, and have died many times for it in the Trainers. After all these years it suddenly dawns on me that when I’m outnumbered four (or six…) to one my first thought should be about running away, and how to do it successfully.

I need to remember that the next time they do that to me…

[drtbkj]

@Stevie:

…this brings up another point - you should learn when and how to exit a fight…something I myself have never learned, and have died many times for it in the Trainers. After all these years it suddenly dawns on me that when I’m outnumbered four (or six…) to one my first thought should be about running away, and how to do it successfully.

I need to remember that the next time they do that to me…

That, Stevie, is exactly what I meant by Point 2 above.
Also , Jack, another point is to know your opponent’s capability. For example, how you engage a Mig-21 is way different from when the bandit is a SU-30 !

[Stevie]

Bear in mind that evading and defending are also two different tactics in and of themselves. I’m far better at defending that I am at evading…and I need to cure that.

[Icer]

All good advice above, one thing I didn’t see mentioned - IF you have an AI wingman a quick way to check if an aircraft (or ground target) is Friendly is to ask your wingman to attack him. You will get a “roger” if its an enemy or a negative response if friendly. Then either let him loose or call him back (quickly!). Be aware in the case of a ground target (or even a close air target) he may drop\fire immediately if within parameters.