F-16 G Limit CAT III

[kalas1988]

Hello,

I know it’s not, but thank’s for your kind reply! So how to deal with G’s ? Just keep the stick in slow movements

[Dee-Jay]

@kalas1988:

I know it’s not, but thank’s

So why saying : “Setting the mode to CAT III doesn’t help much, I still constantly over G the plane….” ?

@kalas1988:

So how to deal with G’s ? Just keep the stick in slow movements

As the pilots do! … watch your parameters, fly the jet.

[johku]

@kalas1988:

Hello,

I know it’s not, but thank’s for your kind reply! So how to deal with Gs ? Just keep the stick in slow movements

Indeed the actual “G limiter” is in your hands. You just need to be gentle on how much you pull the stick. Monitor the Gs when you pull the stick. The CAT switch does not prevent you from breaking the aircraft.

[Planehazza]

Gs. Not G’s. Sorry, super frustrating pet hate.

[LorikEolmin]

@Planehazza:

Gs. Not G’s. Sorry, super frustrating pet hate.

Let’s consider it’s a unit. Just G.

[sungad]

I find it kind of weird that the (real) F-16 does not have a loadout dependent G limiter. I mean, it can’t be that hard to implement.

[Frederf]

G limit is to prevent damage to airplane. In dogfight getting hit with missile does more damage.

[Dee-Jay]

@Frederf:

G limit is to prevent damage to airplane. In dogfight getting hit with missile does more damage.

G limitations mostly applies 99.99% of flight time, when you don’t have a missile tracking you. (And when a missile is tracking you, it means that you’ve failed your mission).

[Stevie]

+1. Not to mention, most of the time even pilots have misconceptions about what a “G limiter” actually does - or the genuine specifics of how it’s implemented. So it’s always up to the pilot to monitor G and fly within limits, at all times.

[Dragon1-1]

@Dee-Jay:

G limitations mostly applies 99.99% of flight time, when you don’t have a missile tracking you. (And when a missile is tracking you, it means that you’ve failed your mission).

Unless the mission is SEAD, then it’s just another day in the office. In fact, if it’s tracking you, it’s probably not tracking whoever you’re escorting, nor did it go quiet to spoof your HARM. So… mission accomplished?

[Stevie]

Actually, G limits apply a GREAT deal when you are dropping A/G ordnance - and when you are just carrying them around. How severe the limits will be depend on what kind and how many. This (and the attendant GWT) are why pilots are so keen to get rid of A/G ords as swiftly as they can if they are in the presence of any expected air threat. Same can apply for A/A stores, but in general that depends a lot on what station they are loaded on.

…not to mention having to bring them back home - nobody wants to come home with stuff under the wings that might go BOOM if you or the jet screw up. In the case of Navy ops, there are not only limits on what GWT you can land the jet with (unlike what I haven’t been able to find for a Viper) but also what GWT you can engage the wire with without snapping it and dribbling off the end of the CV (and possibly having the snapped wire take the legs off of deck crew - this actually happened once during a RL Training op on my watch…). No G limiter is going to save you in any of these cases.

[Dee-Jay]

@Dragon1-1:

Unless the mission is SEAD, then it’s just another day in the office. In fact, if it’s tracking you, it’s probably not tracking whoever you’re escorting, nor did it go quiet to spoof your HARM. So… mission accomplished?

If your a/c is not reusable after your landing, mission may be successful, but you have -1 a/c for subsequent planned missions (depending on severity of the over-g). Not stimulated on game.

[sungad]

@Frederf:

G limit is to prevent damage to airplane. In dogfight getting hit with missile does more damage.

Okay, then give the pilot the option to override it (paddle switch). Isn’t this what the Hornet does?

[Dragon1-1]

The Viper’s FCS doesn’t really support that the way Hornet’s does. IIRC, in the Viper you basically command the G with the stick. Max stick deflection=max G. The Viper isn’t aerodynamically stable, you can’t really fly it “manually” the way you can do with the Hornet.
@Dee-Jay:

If your a/c is not reusable after your landing, mission may be successful, but you have -1 a/c for subsequent planned missions (depending on severity of the over-g). Not stimulated on game.

Still better to have -1 Weasel bird than -4 strikers+their pilots. And it certainly is easier to find another Viper than another nutter who’d fly it into WEZ of various kinds of SAMs on purpose and then fool around long enough for them not to lose interest and trash his HARM. Then again, those guys were dodging SAMs in Phantoms just fine before the Viper got that gig, so maybe G limits don’t bother them that much…

TBH, campaign should simulate bird writeoffs from things like over-G and landing accidents (maybe as an optional difficult setting). IRL, treating you planes like rental cars is a good way to have attrition creep up even if you don’t exceed any limits.

[Dee-Jay]

Of course better an over G than -4 striker. You don’t want to understand what I mean. No time for more explanations.

[Frederf]

@sungad:

Okay, then give the pilot the option to override it (paddle switch). Isn’t this what the Hornet does?

There is no G limit in the F-16 in the sense that some have achieved 10 or 11. There is a maximum G that the FLCS will attempt but it’s at least 9. No one needs more than that. The maximum commanded G in CAT I and CAT III is the same.

[Migbuster]

@sungad:

Okay, then give the pilot the option to override it (paddle switch). Isn’t this what the Hornet does?

They could have no doubt have added that and a variable G limiter anytime in the past 40 years but have decided not to……probably some very good reasons for it. The USAF had the choice in the 70s and decided to go with the limiter. I suspect the F-4 as mentioned above was one of the reasons for limiters considering the loses in training and no doubt in Nam where pilots snatched on the stick in panic and had to eject after departing the jet (if they had not GLOC’d of course).

The Hornet paddle cannot be used outside of a one off emergency which would probably involve avoiding hitting the ground…if the pilot doesn’t black out. Not sure its gonna help avoiding any modern missiles! And as one Hornet pilot stated he thought he would probably forget it was there as they don’t touch it!

[Stevie]

…funny…we were just talking about a guy that got called in front of the Skipper for miss-use of the Paddle Switch during ACM - that he shouldn’t have been doing in the first place - this afternoon.

Yeah - you don’t do that.

[sungad]

I mostly meant that the paddle switch will override the variable (loadout dependent) limiter, but not the 9g limiter.

[sungad]

@Dee-Jay:

G limitations mostly applies 99.99% of flight time, when you don’t have a missile tracking you. (And when a missile is tracking you, it means that you’ve failed your mission).

I wouldn’t say so. In any engagements against 4th gen opponents, you’ll likely have a Fox-3 inbound at some point. The question is how close the missile gets to you.