How to force AI follow me?

[Gear5]

i made a very long strike mission, put a KC-10 midway.

i planed bomb the factory 1st, then refuel in way back. but before i reach TGT, AI wingman feel lack of fuel and say goodbye to me.
i have KC-10 waiting! so i beg him return but he never comply.

i dont wanna refuel twice, any other solution?

[Amraam]

Fuel tanks?

[Dee-Jay]

As AMRAAM said … wing tanks.

i dont wanna refuel twice, any other solution?

Plan AAR before “Push” point, not on the Egress.

[Gear5]

i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary.

@Dee-Jay:

As AMRAAM said … wing tanks.

Plan AAR before “Push” point, not on the Egress.

if so, i have to refuel twice.

[Eagle-Eye]

Still better to plan AAR before going in though. The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire.

If you’re homebound and find yourself with a lack of fuel, just reroute via the tanker. If you’re closing in on the target and notice you won’t have enough, where will you go?

[Dee-Jay]

@Gear5:

i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary.

The only way allow you wing men to follow you is to make him not reaching the Dynamic Bingo status before TGT => Having more fuel before push point or reduce value of the Bingo fuel.

So two solutions:

• Planning AAR before Push point.
• Planing a recovery closer to the FLOT.

Optimize the fuel consummation by flying high and reduce the drag factor the the minimum possible.

[Agave_Blue]

@Gear5:

i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary. ……

Maybe you’re using the wrong tool for the job. If the strike is so deep you don’t have enough fuel with ext tanks plus a tanker stop and you need AI wingmen, is F16 the best choice?

Or, are you pushing from and returning to an AB too far from the FLOT?

[Gear5]

@Dee-Jay:

The only way allow you wing men to follow you is to make him not reaching the Dynamic Bingo status before TGT => Having more fuel before push point or reduce value of the Bingo fuel.

that is 1500 lbs more, maybe it works, maybe not.

@Agave_Blue:

Maybe you’re using the wrong tool for the job. If the strike is so deep you don’t have enough fuel with ext tanks plus a tanker stop and you need AI wingmen, is F16 the best choice?

Or, are you pushing from and returning to an AB too far from the FLOT?

u dont understand my problem.
without KC-10, i can land kangnung or kimpo, but i planed refuel and back to kadena.

[Dee-Jay]

that is 1500 lbs more, maybe it works, maybe not.

Certainly not.

Give us please the:

1 - Distance from target (furthest point of you flight plan) and the recovery field.
2 - Distance from recovery field and your alternate.
3 - Your flight profile (Altitude)
4 - Your drag factor … or your loadout configuration.

[Agave_Blue]

@Gear5:

…. dont understand my problem.
without KC-10, i can land kangnung or kimpo, but i planed refuel and back to kadena.

Certainly no mis-understanding on my part, I think.

I’m saying flying that mission to/from Kadena with AI is not a good mission for BMS …. because of AI problems with tanking, fuel use and AI joker/bingo behavior. You have experienced these problems based on what you’ve posted.

Your real ‘problem’ is to strike this or that thing; that is the problem to solve. Your current plan doesn’t easily fit some BMS limitations (but maybe it could fit better if you follow some of DJ’s advice ). Alternative is to strike that target a different way … use different airbase(s) or use different AC (B52’s, for example).

[Gear5]

kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field：any
KC-10 at 38deg

[Agave_Blue]

@Gear5:

kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field：any
KC-10 at 38deg

You’re not gonna like my next answer either …. ;-).

Doesn’t look like 600 gal external tanks with 2000 pound JDAM’s is an approved PACAF Standard Conventional Loadout.

I do appreciate and respect that in the end it’s ‘users choice’ and accept that as a reasonable limitation of the sim as well.

[Gear5]

@Agave_Blue:

Your real ‘problem’ is to strike this or that thing; that is the problem to solve. Your current plan doesn’t easily fit some BMS limitations (but maybe it could fit better if you follow some of DJ’s advice ). Alternative is to strike that target a different way …. use different airbase(s) or use different AC (B52’s, for example).

ok, now i hope in next version, AI would comply suicide order in any situation, dont be so “smart”.

[Eagle-Eye]

If I HAD to prepare such a long flight with F16’s, I’d plan to fly higher (= as a quick guestimation, optimum altitude should be above F260, I think) and probably do (at least) 2 AAR’s on ingress: 1 abeam Taegu/Yechon, and 1 as close to the FLOT as possible/safe.

[Agave_Blue]

@Eagle-Eye:

If I HAD to prepare such a long flight with F16’s, I’d plan to fly higher (= as a quick guestimation, optimum altitude should be above F260, I think) and probably do (at least) 2 AAR’s on ingress: 1 abeam Taegu/Yechon, and 1 as close to the FLOT as possible/safe.

I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.

[Amraam]

@Gear5:

kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field：any
KC-10 at 38deg

(520*15) + 1200 + 400 = Bingo 9400 lbs / Joker 10400 lbs. Enjoy

[Dee-Jay]

@Gear5:

kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field：any
KC-10 at 38deg

If we consider a recovery to Kadena (without alternate):

For a human: Bingo = (52010) + 1000 = 6200lbs (minimum!!! considering an Egress at the maximum economical consummation which is not smart/possible over hostile territory).
For your AI: Bingo = (52020) + 1000 = 11400lbs (because AI can’t consider an economical recovery with its actual drag-factor … he has to consider a high D/F anytime.)

…

I would rather suggest you to set as recovery filed another airfield than Kadena. Set Seoul or Kimpo as final landing point … and try to see if your IA’s Dynamic Bingo is lower than for Kadean.

In any cases, plan a AAR on Ingress close to the “Push” (with an RVIP located at about 100Nm before FLOT and plan it so that it will be an en-route refuel such as a rendez-vous Golf procedure)

If you set Seoul or Kimpo as recovery (distance from Uiju about 210Nm), theoretical AI Bingo should be about (210*20) + 1000 = 5200lbs.

So … if you plan an AAR during Ingress, and Push with 9000lbs (consider it a a minimum fuel at Push), you will be over TGT with about 5500lbs remaining (so about 300lbs of combat fuel). Not a lot of possible evasive or offensive maneuvers. You will have to focus on your task.

Plan your flight at the highest applicable flight level with the lowest possible drag factor.

[Gear5]

@Agave_Blue:

I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.

yes, soon after u climb to it, u need to descend for fighting.
since u burn more fuel when climb, u dont save much.

[Agave_Blue]

What about F16-C 52+ w/CFT? And tanks?

[Frederf]

With detailed planning (for example down to the detail of climbing slightly as calculated as weight decreases) it is surprising how far the F-16 can go. With triple 370/300 tanks I’m guessing south coast of Korea to China and back without AAR is possible. Enemy action is very disruptive to fuel planning, non-optimal speeds and altitudes less so. AI are very picky about fuel and not great at saving it. I wouldn’t plan any AI mission beyond Pyongyang without AAR. Since AI never count on AAR for return leg I find AAR on return leg to be a waste of time.

I will try a mission plan from Kadena to China with 2xGBU-31 payload and AI to see if it’s possible.