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    How to force AI follow me?

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    • Gear5
      Gear5 last edited by

      i made a very long strike mission, put a KC-10 midway.

      i planed bomb the factory 1st, then refuel in way back. but before i reach TGT, AI wingman feel lack of fuel and say goodbye to me.
      i have KC-10 waiting! so i beg him return but he never comply.

      i dont wanna refuel twice, any other solution?

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Amraam
        Amraam last edited by

        Fuel tanks?

        Dee-Jay 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Dee-Jay
          Dee-Jay @Amraam last edited by

          As AMRAAM said … wing tanks.

          i dont wanna refuel twice, any other solution?

          Plan AAR before “Push” point, not on the Egress.

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          Gear5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Gear5
            Gear5 @Dee-Jay last edited by

            i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary.

            @Dee-Jay:

            As AMRAAM said … wing tanks.

            Plan AAR before “Push” point, not on the Egress.

            if so, i have to refuel twice.

            Eagle-Eye Dee-Jay Agave_Blue 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Eagle-Eye
              Eagle-Eye @Gear5 last edited by

              Still better to plan AAR before going in though. The only time you have too much fuel is when you’re on fire. 😉

              If you’re homebound and find yourself with a lack of fuel, just reroute via the tanker. If you’re closing in on the target and notice you won’t have enough, where will you go?

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Dee-Jay
                Dee-Jay @Gear5 last edited by

                @Gear5:

                i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary.

                The only way allow you wing men to follow you is to make him not reaching the Dynamic Bingo status before TGT => Having more fuel before push point or reduce value of the Bingo fuel.

                So two solutions:

                • Planning AAR before Push point.
                • Planing a recovery closer to the FLOT.

                Optimize the fuel consummation by flying high and reduce the drag factor the the minimum possible.

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                • Agave_Blue
                  Agave_Blue @Gear5 last edited by

                  @Gear5:

                  i have ext tank, not enough. i must drop them in war zone, refuel in way back is necessary. ……

                  Maybe you’re using the wrong tool for the job. If the strike is so deep you don’t have enough fuel with ext tanks plus a tanker stop and you need AI wingmen, is F16 the best choice?

                  Or, are you pushing from and returning to an AB too far from the FLOT?

                  Gear5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Gear5
                    Gear5 @Agave_Blue last edited by

                    @Dee-Jay:

                    The only way allow you wing men to follow you is to make him not reaching the Dynamic Bingo status before TGT => Having more fuel before push point or reduce value of the Bingo fuel.

                    that is 1500 lbs more, maybe it works, maybe not.

                    @Agave_Blue:

                    Maybe you’re using the wrong tool for the job. If the strike is so deep you don’t have enough fuel with ext tanks plus a tanker stop and you need AI wingmen, is F16 the best choice?

                    Or, are you pushing from and returning to an AB too far from the FLOT?

                    u dont understand my problem.
                    without KC-10, i can land kangnung or kimpo, but i planed refuel and back to kadena.

                    Dee-Jay Agave_Blue 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Dee-Jay
                      Dee-Jay @Gear5 last edited by

                      that is 1500 lbs more, maybe it works, maybe not.

                      Certainly not.

                      Give us please the:

                      1 - Distance from target (furthest point of you flight plan) and the recovery field.
                      2 - Distance from recovery field and your alternate.
                      3 - Your flight profile (Altitude)
                      4 - Your drag factor … or your loadout configuration.

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                      Gear5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Agave_Blue
                        Agave_Blue @Gear5 last edited by

                        @Gear5:

                        …. dont understand my problem.
                        without KC-10, i can land kangnung or kimpo, but i planed refuel and back to kadena.

                        Certainly no mis-understanding on my part, I think.

                        I’m saying flying that mission to/from Kadena with AI is not a good mission for BMS …. because of AI problems with tanking, fuel use and AI joker/bingo behavior. You have experienced these problems based on what you’ve posted.

                        Your real ‘problem’ is to strike this or that thing; that is the problem to solve. Your current plan doesn’t easily fit some BMS limitations (but maybe it could fit better if you follow some of DJ’s advice 😉 ). Alternative is to strike that target a different way … use different airbase(s) or use different AC (B52’s, for example).

                        🤷

                        Gear5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Gear5
                          Gear5 @Dee-Jay last edited by

                          kadena to uiju, 520 miles
                          2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
                          alt FL230,
                          alter field:any
                          KC-10 at 38deg

                          Agave_Blue Eagle-Eye Amraam Dee-Jay 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Agave_Blue
                            Agave_Blue @Gear5 last edited by

                            @Gear5:

                            kadena to uiju, 520 miles
                            2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
                            alt FL230,
                            alter field:any
                            KC-10 at 38deg

                            You’re not gonna like my next answer either …. ;-).

                            Doesn’t look like 600 gal external tanks with 2000 pound JDAM’s is an approved PACAF Standard Conventional Loadout.

                            I do appreciate and respect that in the end it’s ‘users choice’ and accept that as a reasonable limitation of the sim as well. 👍

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Gear5
                              Gear5 @Agave_Blue last edited by

                              @Agave_Blue:

                              Your real ‘problem’ is to strike this or that thing; that is the problem to solve. Your current plan doesn’t easily fit some BMS limitations (but maybe it could fit better if you follow some of DJ’s advice 😉 ). Alternative is to strike that target a different way …. use different airbase(s) or use different AC (B52’s, for example).

                              ok, now i hope in next version, AI would comply suicide order in any situation, dont be so “smart”.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Eagle-Eye
                                Eagle-Eye @Gear5 last edited by

                                If I HAD to prepare such a long flight with F16’s, I’d plan to fly higher (= as a quick guestimation, optimum altitude should be above F260, I think) and probably do (at least) 2 AAR’s on ingress: 1 abeam Taegu/Yechon, and 1 as close to the FLOT as possible/safe.

                                Agave_Blue 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Agave_Blue
                                  Agave_Blue @Eagle-Eye last edited by

                                  @Eagle-Eye:

                                  If I HAD to prepare such a long flight with F16’s, I’d plan to fly higher (= as a quick guestimation, optimum altitude should be above F260, I think) and probably do (at least) 2 AAR’s on ingress: 1 abeam Taegu/Yechon, and 1 as close to the FLOT as possible/safe.

                                  I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.

                                  Gear5 Frederf 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Amraam
                                    Amraam @Gear5 last edited by

                                    @Gear5:

                                    kadena to uiju, 520 miles
                                    2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
                                    alt FL230,
                                    alter field:any
                                    KC-10 at 38deg

                                    (520*15) + 1200 + 400 = Bingo 9400 lbs / Joker 10400 lbs. Enjoy 😛

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Dee-Jay
                                      Dee-Jay @Gear5 last edited by

                                      @Gear5:

                                      kadena to uiju, 520 miles
                                      2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
                                      alt FL230,
                                      alter field:any
                                      KC-10 at 38deg

                                      If we consider a recovery to Kadena (without alternate):

                                      For a human: Bingo = (52010) + 1000 = 6200lbs (minimum!!! considering an Egress at the maximum economical consummation which is not smart/possible over hostile territory).
                                      For your AI: Bingo = (520
                                      20) + 1000 = 11400lbs (because AI can’t consider an economical recovery with its actual drag-factor … he has to consider a high D/F anytime.)

                                      …

                                      I would rather suggest you to set as recovery filed another airfield than Kadena. Set Seoul or Kimpo as final landing point … and try to see if your IA’s Dynamic Bingo is lower than for Kadean.

                                      In any cases, plan a AAR on Ingress close to the “Push” (with an RVIP located at about 100Nm before FLOT and plan it so that it will be an en-route refuel such as a rendez-vous Golf procedure)

                                      If you set Seoul or Kimpo as recovery (distance from Uiju about 210Nm), theoretical AI Bingo should be about (210*20) + 1000 = 5200lbs.

                                      So … if you plan an AAR during Ingress, and Push with 9000lbs (consider it a a minimum fuel at Push), you will be over TGT with about 5500lbs remaining (so about 300lbs of combat fuel). Not a lot of possible evasive or offensive maneuvers. You will have to focus on your task.

                                      Plan your flight at the highest applicable flight level with the lowest possible drag factor.

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                                      Agave_Blue 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Gear5
                                        Gear5 @Agave_Blue last edited by

                                        @Agave_Blue:

                                        I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.

                                        yes, soon after u climb to it, u need to descend for fighting.
                                        since u burn more fuel when climb, u dont save much.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Agave_Blue
                                          Agave_Blue @Dee-Jay last edited by

                                          What about F16-C 52+ w/CFT? And tanks?

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Frederf
                                            Frederf @Agave_Blue last edited by

                                            With detailed planning (for example down to the detail of climbing slightly as calculated as weight decreases) it is surprising how far the F-16 can go. With triple 370/300 tanks I’m guessing south coast of Korea to China and back without AAR is possible. Enemy action is very disruptive to fuel planning, non-optimal speeds and altitudes less so. AI are very picky about fuel and not great at saving it. I wouldn’t plan any AI mission beyond Pyongyang without AAR. Since AI never count on AAR for return leg I find AAR on return leg to be a waste of time.

                                            I will try a mission plan from Kadena to China with 2xGBU-31 payload and AI to see if it’s possible.

                                            Agave_Blue 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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