[VR] "My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny" fix

[Snake122]

@repvez here’s the basics on how I’ve done it for years on my 2d monitors to get the size right and hence I have a good feel for the rest of the cockpit scaling. Plus while my home cockpit is not 1:1, I have fairly accurate sized and placed ICP, TM MFDs, and fairly close seat dimensions/angle that help with scale feeling too.

I used to know these numbers more exactly, so maybe some one else can chime in. The standard F-16 HUD (not Block 40/42) is about 7 inches/18 cm wide. Pilots sit about 28 inches/71cm or so from the HUD frame.

So find the center horizontally of your lower monitor bezel. Put a ruler or mark at the center horizontal 7 inches/ 18cm of your monitor then sit 28 inches/71cm from your monitor. Set your BMS view where the HUD bottom is inline with your lower monitor bezel and adjust the BMS FOV (scroll wheel default) until your HUD is 7" wide on your actual monitor. When your FOV is set, look around the cockpit sitting with your TIR/mouse panning/etc. and your cockpit should now be a very similar size to RL despite there being some 3d to 2d issues.

Obviously you will have a hard time exactly pulling this over to VR, but it give you a much better feel for the scale that we are looking for.

[repvez]

I sat a couple times in F16 cockpit and my shin almost touch the MFD lower edge, so I never see my feet like this video or as in game on the pedals. OR at least there is always black.

compare the real size:

The knee is closer for the engine gauges than the stick. the stick and the throttle is almost close to the hip joint.
https://defenceforumindia.com/attachments/195f4a7b31c89dcf38df8888138c73ac-jpg.184185/

[rubbra]

@LorikEolmin ? Do you think it makes a difference above 100%? I find it has no impact on my system either in terms of performance or visuals. Like I can take it to absolute maximum and still get the same frame rate as I do at 100% (though the higher I go the smaller the BmS overlays like fps counter and radios are).

I’m now starting to doubt myself in this though!

Definitely, going below 100% impacts image quality negatively. Try 25% and you’ll find the HUD much blurrier.

[Fish44]

@Caldero

…you need BMS running to see that setting…

Should be able to get there from STEAM VR, SETTINGS, PER APPLICATION VIDEO SETTINGS, BMS 437 (or whatever you called it), directly in 2d., once you have added BMS to steam.

[LorikEolmin]

@rubbra said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

@LorikEolmin ? Do you think it makes a difference above 100%? I find it has no impact on my system either in terms of performance or visuals. Like I can take it to absolute maximum and still get the same frame rate as I do at 100% (though the higher I go the smaller the BmS overlays like fps counter and radios are).

I’m now starting to doubt myself in this though!

Definitely, going below 100% impacts image quality negatively. Try 25% and you’ll find the HUD much blurrier.

The topic being World Scale, not Resolution, I replied about World Scale.

[rubbra]

@LorikEolmin ah, I was replying to someone who said that Steam resolution slider made no difference to their resolution.

[spotdott]

@repvez I agree. The pilot model in BMS is too far back. Ideally the head should be a bit more forward. Is there a way to adjust this in the game itself or do we need to physically move forward a bit?

[Jeast]

Quest 2 user here.
I tried all 3 options: Virtual Desktop, Air Link and wired Link.
The scaling issue doesn’t appear when using Virtual Desktop but only when using both Link options.

Hope this is of any use.

Cheers,

J

[Snake122]

@spotdott said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

@repvez I agree. The pilot model in BMS is too far back. Ideally the head should be a bit more forward. Is there a way to adjust this in the game itself or do we need to physically move forward a bit?

In which headset? I start with the Pimax 8k X then rolled back around to the Quest 2 and now the Reverb G2. There are some huge scaling issues with the 8k X has a huge scaling difference between settings.

On the G2, I really took the time to look completely around the cockpit and get what @repvez and others are saying to an extent. Yes, the legs have the issue that in theory the knees are up high enough to block view of the rudder pedals, maybe that would make the pilot feel taller in a sense. However, you will lose a bit of feedback of seeing the pedals move that maybe a good bit of “cheat” for simulation because we don’t get the kinesthetic feeling of yaw.

I would say the pilot head in the G2 to me is in the right spot if not maybe a little too close. Again, the HUD is my main frame of reference, and it if anything feels slightly wide but I also chalk that up to going from wide screen to more narrow FOV. I feel most PC simulators have HUDs typically scaled bigger than they truly are with default FOV. Also the MFDs are about the same too. The first couple times I sat in the RL cockpit, the MFDs are smaller than you expect too sitting at your knees.

[spotdott]

@Snake122 I have the reverb G2. With 110 percent scaling applied. My main concern is the apparent distance to the MFDs. Doesn’t seem like my arms would reach it even fully stretched. The pedals shouldn’t be that close to the pilot, it needs to be positioned further forward of the aircraft (deeper into the pit). The pilots model makes the MFDs look like they are just above the ankles. This is incorrect. If the pedals are deeper then the knees would go in more and below the MFDs.

[Tazz]

I have a HP Reverb G2 but I haven’t installed BMW 4.37 yet (too busy with the holidays) - but I have a similar “issue” in iRacing, in that by default the head is positioned too far back into the seat for my liking.

To get around that, when sitting in my sim rig, I push my head all the way back (while wearing the G2 of course) and then press the “recenter HMD” button in iRacing. When I then sit normal again, I sit a lot closer to the dashboard - as if I moved the seat forward if you will. (This then places my wheel exactly where it fits in the game as well, so it feels way more natural to me).

Anyway, give that a try in BMS? By re-centering your HMD away from your seated position, you are effectively readjusting the view point forward.

[Dee-Jay]

@LorikEolmin said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

ttings, and enable world scale, or whatever it’s calle

I had great hopes on that one …

… I tried …

Unfortunately … this is no bueno at all.

I don’t know if you ever climbed on an F-16 cockpit for real (or any other jet like M2000 (?) … it is much much narrower that that.

By default, to me, F-16 cockpit is probably ok.
But I agree … something is strange with legs.

However … World Scale at 125% make the cockpit way too much big to look real.
IRL, you have the nose almost literally in the HUD … no need to extend the arm to reach the MFDs … etc …
When I scale it 125%, I need to fully extend my arms to have the feeling that I am reaching the OBS buttons.

To me … and according to my souvenir on F-16 cockpit, (pic above) something is definitively off here. I can’t tell exactly what (?)

[LorikEolmin]

@Dee-Jay said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

@LorikEolmin said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

ttings, and enable world scale, or whatever it’s calle

I had great hopes on that one …

… I tried …

Unfortunately … this is no bueno at all.

I don’t know if you ever climbed on an F-16 cockpit for real (or any other jet like M2000 (?) … it is much much narrower that that.

By default, to me, F-16 cockpit is probably ok.
But I agree … something is strange with legs.

However … World Scale at 125% make the cockpit way too much big to look real.
IRL, you have the nose almost literally in the HUD … no need to extend the arm to reach the MFDs … etc …
When I scale it 125%, I need to fully extend my arms to have the feeling that I am reaching the OBS buttons.

To me … and according to my souvenir on F-16 cockpit, (pic above) something is definitively off here. I can’t tell exactly what (?)

Exactly what the OP of the other topic says. There’s a problem between legs and cockpit. I referred to my legs since I’ve never been in a cockpit. But my VR reference position is not where I am, I first lean back to set it then I move forward, way closer to the MFD. Not enough to my taste.

[Snake122]

@LorikEolmin @Dee-Jay I can tell you the MFDs on normal scale, not 125% (haven’t been able to access the world scale menu), look right with my Quest 2.

I can tell this because my TM MFDs, that are practically actual size, are mounted right over my knees as we agree they are in the real jet. With my look under mod I can tell you that they pretty match in size as I look under at the physical MFDs and then look back up into the headset.

I’ll let you know about the Reverb G2 when I get it’s facial interface to mod 3d printed. The Pimax will have to wait until we sort out the parallel projections long term option.

[LorikEolmin]

@Snake122 said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

@LorikEolmin @Dee-Jay I can tell you the MFDs on normal scale, not 125% (haven’t been able to access the world scale menu), look right with my Quest 2.

I can tell this because my TM MFDs, that are practically actual size, are mounted right over my knees as we agree they are in the real jet. With my look under mod I can tell you that they pretty match in size as I look under at the physical MFDs and then look back up into the headset.

I’ll let you know about the Reverb G2 when I get it’s facial interface to mod 3d printed. The Pimax will have to wait until we sort out the parallel projections long term option.

We’re not talking about the same thing.

EDIT: before you ask, when I look at my VR feet, they are right on my real knees.

[Snake122]

@LorikEolmin it does matter because finding both the 2d dimension size is just as in important as the 3d depth. Yes, the feet are messed up in both depth and the fact that you can actually see them. But, if you use the world scale, does it change the size of the MFDs at the same VR rotation zero point? If yes, then that trading one error for another.

[LorikEolmin]

@Snake122 said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

@LorikEolmin it does matter because finding both the 2d dimension size is just as in important as the 3d depth. Yes, the feet are messed up in both depth and the fact that you can actually see them. But, if you use the world scale, does it change the size of the MFDs at the same VR rotation zero point? If yes, then that trading one error for another.

If you’re trying to tell me VR is not perfect yet, I’m not the best client, I don’t use it. I wouldn’t, be it perfect.

[Korbi]

@Snake122 said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

The Pimax will have to wait until we sort out the parallel projections long term option.

I solved that!!!

[qawa]

@LorikEolmin said in [VR] “My legs are small and my cockpit is tiny” fix:

Thanks to the people who gave tips about that (@VO101_Tom , @SOBO-87)

1. Add falcon bms.exe to your non-steam games list in steam. Browse the /bin/x64 folder to find it. And if you don’t want to use a launcher by the way, that’s where BMS is actually launched from. Parameters (-ef, -mono…) work for it too.

2. Go find Falcon BMS in your steam list, open the properties, and tick the “Add to VR app” box.

3. Restart Steam.

4. Start BMS, not from Steam, but with your exe itself.

5. Go 3D.

6. Open your SteamVR menu with your left controller (Quest 2 here). Go to Video settings, and enable world scale, or whatever it’s called in English, down the list.

7. This opens a new parameter line (go down a little bit to see it).
   If you want to feel like Captain Kirk in USS Viper, try 200%. If you want to have a real world sized F16 cockpit, try 125%.

8. Close the VR parameter screen then exit 3D and BMS.

9. Restart BMS and check the result.

10. Don’t change field of view. You’ll just see two pictures instead of one.

many many Thanks for this solution … another step ahead !!!

[Dee-Jay]

@qawa Hi!

This is not a solution Qawa.

At 125% legs are “better” but cockpit is WAY too large compared to RL.
It is possible that the issue is “simply” the fact that legs have not been properly designed (remember, they have been added later on additionaly).
It is possible that they are a little bit off scale and a bit “too high”. Not noticable in 3D in flat screen, but nobueno in VR.
Without legs, cockpit look more conformal.

Be careful not trying to solve things with hacks and actually making things worse.

At least my G2, according to my personal experience and feelings, at 125%, I ahve almost the impression to sit in an AirbusA310 . I am mayne exaggerating a little

For reference, if you have it, try on DCS. F-16 cockpit size match perfectly in VR.