Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility

[Atze 0]

I recently installed a couple of mods on several Steam games for my brother. He really likes complex strategy titles like the Total War series but is technically a little … helpless.

Having considered never before seriously to put BMS as a standalone on Steam, seeing all those community mods in the Steam workshop let me think that BMS would be predestinated to get a place there under Falcon 4.0

I suggest this because in my opinion BMS has a slight visibility problem. Like beeing at page 1 on Google for websites, for a “gam…”, sorry, simulation it is essential beeing present on Steam or Youtube.

With the increasing status of the F-16 module of “That other multi aircraft sim” and its dynamic campaign around the corner, this would be a very usefull step (not only having the downloads here at the page).

That there would be a demand for it you can see in the experience, that users of Digital Com…, sorry, that other multi aircraft sim highly appreciate the gorgeous BMS docs (not in the ED forums, but in virtual fighter squadrons).

I know, this would not be such a simple step like someone might think, because the present update system would not fit in the Steam system very well. Also other submods like theaters and so on would be difficult.

But I think it absolutely should be taken into consideration.

P.S.: Don’t let you fool by my rookie account here (my former got lost having not posted a long time because of private time problems). I’m with Falcon since 3.0 and here in the community since the SuperPAK era

[MaxWaldorf]

Although your idea makes sense, there several limitations :

1. steam isn’t the only mean of distribution for Falcon 4.0

2. That would force us to have a proximity with tommo that we are absolutely not comfortable with

3. That would limit our freedom

I think that the new installer made things much more easy (including update). There shouldn’t be to much of a gap for anyone to adopt falcon BMS…

[Atze 0]

@MaxWaldorf

1. It’s not about getting a legal copy of Falcon 4.0, it’s about the far increased visibility of BMS on Steam

2. @Tommo848 ? Why there would be a problem? I don’t think there is any pressure in the mod area (Workshop), since other mods there also publish as they like.

3. See 2.

I don’t say put it in one Falcon second on Steam, but it could be held in mind and considered for future development.
I would rather see it in a timeframe like the 5-6 Falcon weeks bringing us the new UI

[airtex2019]

I have no vote for or against Steam integration but I want to take a moment to acknowledge the huge changes BMS has already undertaken, in the past 12 months, to reduce the barrier(s) to entry and increase visibility.

• easy downloader and updater – no more bittorrent! no more needing to maintain a setup/staging folder for updates!

• much easier to sign on to the new forum… better search features, and also google indexing of threads!

• integration of Alt Launcher (which has caused added confusion in the near term, for some old timers, but still must admit it is a huge net win for newb-friendliness)

• the recent, huge overhaul of virtually all the main docs

• dozens of new youtube videos, incl from the devs and doc authors

• lots of under-the-hood improvements to make the code work better, by default, out of the box, for a wider variety of modern desktop systems… sometimes little things, like making borderless-mode the default, go a long way to removing technical barriers and reducing confusion

• release cadence brought down from ~3 years to ~3 months to ~3 weeks!

Yes, true it’s still not anything like a one-click Steam download or a retail, shrink-wrapped software experience… but it has moved so far in that direction, over the past year… certainly more than I ever thought it would.

[Snake122]

@Atze-0 The Tommo company is the owner of the Falcon series IP. You have to remember that this continues because they allow it. You don’t want to seem to be actively competing with the IP. This is the most stable source code agreement there has been in Falcon 4.0’s almost 25 year history. You need to understand that we used to be constantly worried if this version of BMS/eFalcon/etc. would be the last with on the next C&D order coming down. Best not to poke the bear and continue to help feed it.

[Atze 0]

@airtex2019
Yes, all those got huge improvements. My point was just where you get in first contact with the information that BMS exists or you get updated which advances it made since the old days.

@Snake122
Oooh, the IP holder. Yes, that is a very important point. From a look at their website it seems they don’t develop own games but have a business model through licenses Thats actually a bit dangerous.
I remember the confusion and anger caused with Allied Force vs. FreeFalcon and RedViper.

[MaxWaldorf]

@Atze-0
The proximity (meaning that release cycles will need to be approved by tommo) on steam is an absolute deal breaker for me.

Our new distribution model although not perfect is far better and easy to use…

[Atlas]

@Atze-0 BMS’s longevity depends more on the devs that continue to develop this sim as a passion project and the community that loves BMS for what it offers to the simulation genre. The longer BMS continues, the more chances of increased public visibility. The more popular the Viper gets on that other platform, the more people will discover BMS just through discussion be it on the official ED forums or on Reddit or some other social media site, but again, the longevity will depend more on the devs keeping things alive and moving rather than the number of pilots flying BMS.

[Atze 0]

@Atlas
You are right, BMS will be discussed more by the existence of the F-16 module.

I did a short side step to DCS this afternoon, building an OCA package mission and flying it. I almost forgot what a pain in the a** it is. The HAD is a bit funny (at best). Then trying to get the other planes to drop bombs is a problem that was never really solved. Me beeing lead of the SEAD flight having taken out the SA-10 and Tunguska I placed was not enough. The AI flew so stupid that the remaining 2 Shilkas and a SA-13 got the F-18 runway bombing flight (although all the waypoints were set at Angels 20).

So, I’m cured now, buying some roses and coming back

[white_fang]

@Atze-0
You see. Modern psychology does wonders today

[Atlas]

@Atze-0 that ecosystem (DCS) is best for scripted missions and trying out/learning new things. The ability to test and repeat makes it the ideal platform for testing and learning. However, I think once the pilot is ready to remove the training wheels, that ecosystem quickly shows its shortcomings. Unfortunately, with it being a business, it needs funding to continue (longevity) which means it needs public visibility (Steam?) to get a wider audience.

Thankfully, the same does not apply here.

Welcome back!

[VIPER. 0]

For all those who are talking about the nameless “simulator” I dedicate this sticker.

[Atze 0]

@VIPER-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

For all those who are talking about the nameless “simulator” I dedicate this sticker.

I always hoped they could build an experience around the aircraft modules to give the whole thing a meaning like fighting on a huge battlefield. But they never did since the Flanker days, then to Lock On (although there they had at least a bit motivating story missions). I would even appreciate a somewhat more simple system like in Tornado campaign level2 or Falcon 3.0, but nada. Fly pre-built missions or build some for yourself. The menu button “Campaign” is a big joke (connect some single missions and call it that). Those third party mods “simulating a dynamic campaign” like Liberation are a laugh (if I want to play Monopoly I will do exactly this).

OK, for a campaign it needs some sort of a bubble system we have (from their latest official posts they are trying that), not to have all units on the map loaded in a mission all at once. But why try that if even the maps are not fully fleshed out… (no offence @SpbGoro, Middle East is my favorite).

The mission editor is more a developer’s tool than a sim UI - and exactly as sensitive if not used in very narrow parameters, producing bullsh*t when entering 3D.

If they are as succesfull with their dynamic campaign as they are with AI behaviour…

@VIPER-0 : You are wrong. It’s more like Anakin would be saved in Episode III (we are the light side). And I would say I have absolutely the right to have a humorous comedy-afternoon from time to time…

[VIPER. 0]

@Atze-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@VIPER-0 : You are wrong. It’s more like Anakin would be saved in Episode III (we are the light side). And I would say I have absolutely the right to have a humorous comedy-afternoon from time to time…

[Atze 0]

@VIPER-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@Atze-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@VIPER-0 : You are wrong. It’s more like Anakin would be saved in Episode III (we are the light side). And I would say I have absolutely the right to have a humorous comedy-afternoon from time to time…

No, here you can see me helping a DCS developer out of the door. You also may recognise an “Almost-DCS-enthusiast” towards the end of the clip beeing saved from the dark side. Thats the only one truth

[VIPER. 0]

@Atze-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@VIPER-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@Atze-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@VIPER-0 : You are wrong. It’s more like Anakin would be saved in Episode III (we are the light side). And I would say I have absolutely the right to have a humorous comedy-afternoon from time to time…

No, here you can see me helping a DCS developer out of the door. You also may recognise an “Almost-DCS-enthusiast” towards the end of the clip beeing saved from the dark side. Thats the only one truth

[Dee-Jay]

@Atze-0 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@Atlas
You are right, BMS will be discussed more by the existence of the F-16 module.

I did a short side step to DCS this afternoon, building an OCA package mission and flying it. I almost forgot what a pain in the a** it is. The HAD is a bit funny (at best). Then trying to get the other planes to drop bombs is a problem that was never really solved. Me beeing lead of the SEAD flight having taken out the SA-10 and Tunguska I placed was not enough. The AI flew so stupid that the remaining 2 Shilkas and a SA-13 got the F-18 runway bombing flight (although all the waypoints were set at Angels 20).

So, I’m cured now, buying some roses and coming back

Creating a (good) COMAO on DCS is a nightmare and an unsolvable dilemma.
AIs are unable to depart correctly, unable to manage timings … unable to manage formation changes and be back track/trimming, unable to deliver weapons properly, unable to manage fuel, unable to recovery correctly.
It is literally impossible to sync several flights without spending few days adjusting each tests after tests …

It is just something (I don’t have the words).

If they want to have a dyn camp, they have A LOT of work fixing and enhancing this first, otherwise, they dyn camp will never work.

This is what AIs does after one week of fine tuning and syncing three flights at push (without success) …

[bjjman94]

@Atze-0 yeah definitely needs to be done especially to contiue competing with DCS

[VIPER. 0]

@bjjman94 said in Suggestion: Putting BMS on Steam as a Mod to improve its longevity and public visibility:

@Atze-0 yeah definitely needs to be done especially to contiue competing with DCS

It is that BMS has never competed with DCS, they are 2 different worlds. DCS is a company, a business, and is only looking for (and there is nothing wrong with) money. BMS is a community that has put effort and heart to carry out this project.

It’s like in boxing, they are in the same competition but at different weights.

I always make the comparison to my boys that DCS is that pretty, good-looking girl but if you are looking to start a good conversation you realize that she is an empty shell.
BMS however is that girl who is not a magazine model but you can spend hours talking and there is always something interesting in her.

[bjjman94]

@VIPER-0 lol nah bro they’re definitely compatible especially as of the past year or so. Bms shines more in the dynamic campaign but that’s about it dcs is really catching up fixing the odds and ends that weren’t as realistic. I still like bms better tho and i think I always will unless dcs gets a crazy interactive campaign.