ZSU+AGM88

[Alfred]

AGM-65D can be bore-sighted with TGP in block 32 but that block don’t seem to realize it afterwards. I mean I get to the target and lock using TGP but don’t get the same result as in block 40 & above in which a C -completed-can be viewed.

[CheckPoint]

Laser Guided Bomb like GBU-12 is a good option as well, if there is not too much clouds in the area.

[molnibalage]

In RL also would be an issue. A Shilka if got info from other sources and use only the radar from a quick. target acq. then fire is active so short time which makes impossible to aim, launch and reach the HARM the target before it goes silent.

As a radar SAM or AAA has shorter and shorter range is became more hard and eventually impossible to suppress and destroy it. Because the “kill chain” time always be far longer because of the reaction time. The RWR --> assessment —> aim --> launch —> missile’s flight time

[Radium]

Ukraine’s Mig-29 mounted AGM-88 striked at lease 4 ZSU-23-4.

So yes, it’s possible !

[molnibalage]

@Radium said in ZSU+AGM88:

Ukraine’s Mig-29 mounted AGM-88 striked at lease 4 ZSU-23-4.

So yes, it’s possible !

I seriously doubt it.

The ZSU-23-4 is the most time sensitive target ever while the AGM-88s are just hacked on a pylon to the MiG/Su planes. (in the US there is a long history of QRC eq.) The utilized capability is below compared to a Block 32 + HARM when the HARM is used as a sensor.

I’m quite sure that pilots in the MiG/Su do not have any HMI to control even the most basic level the HARM. Likely they are pre programmed on the ground (also a hack = QRC) and planes tried to use them against pre briefed targets. Such flexible use as on F-16 with HTS is just a dream and even with that you can’t avoid the kill chain time factor what I explained.

Even for the stone age AGM-45 the HSI of the Vietnam era planes had to be modified, the ILS crosshair was used as a tool for aiming. When the Shrike was designed specifically only against literally a single radar or very narrow band range.

[Radium]

@molnibalage I am no expert of AGM-88 but Ukraine use them without tracking something specific. Once the missile is released and from available Intelligence it goes directly to the first radar emission stored in its database and at least once it rushed on ZSU-23 They really use it in a primitive mode.

[Stevie]

I once took a shot at a ZSU in a RL Harrier Trainer with a Sidewinder…I was loaded out for a CAS/Strike scenario and halfway down the route the Controller jumped me with two Mig-21s. I Combat Jett my A/G weapons and climbed to attack the Migs head on - killed one with a Sidewinder, and the second one with the Gun. Then went back to the deck and on vectors to my objective…

…at which point the Controller told me my objective was a ZSU and that there would be smoke on the target some number of seconds before my arrival. I’d Jett my Mk-80s so I toggled up the Gun and found out that straffing with a Harrier takes more skill than downing a Mig-21. At least for me…when that 25mm fires the jet tucks because the gun is on the belly…practice is required.

After somehow surviving two passes (and totally missing the ZSU with the Gun) the Controller told me “I don’t think guns are going to cut it”. To which I replied - “guns are all I got”…and the Controller said - "if this was real, you’d think of something.

…so…I selected my last remaining Sidewinder. As long as the ZSU was shooting at me I was getting intermittent tone…so after blowing another pass, I put the missile into Boresight and forced my way down the thing’s throat. I got solid tone, and called “Fox 2”…only to hear the Controller tell me - “I thought you had him, but the missile broke lock”. Go figure…

[Radium]

@Stevie is it an irony story ? Or a real story ?

[Stevie]

@Radium - real story, but in a RL Trainer sim and not RW combat.

[Radium]

@Stevie Surprising ! So heat source from operating Shilka itself was sufficient to drive an IR seaker. What kind of sidewinder was simulated ? AIM-9M ? AIM-9L ? AIM-9P ?

[mirv]

The AIM-9X actually has a surface attack mode. I don’t know too much about its employment, but I’d imagine it would be more of a last-effort weapon, like maybe when you’re Winchester on AG stores, maybe out of 20mm, and there’s a troops in contact situation requiring emergency CAS. Just spitballing.

[Radium]

@mirv but… did AIM-9X has been ever implemented on Harrier ? 🤨

[mirv]

@Radium

I have no idea. I don’t know much about the Harrier.

[molnibalage]

@Radium said in ZSU+AGM88:

@Stevie Surprising ! So heat source from operating Shilka itself was sufficient to drive an IR seaker. What kind of sidewinder was simulated ? AIM-9M ? AIM-9L ? AIM-9P ?

I have doubts even considering an AIM-9L/M.
The already had the InSb detector material, but it still needed the large amount of exhaust gas of a turbojet/turbofan.

The engine power of a Shilka is in 0.5 MW range if move with full power.
The max. mil power of an F-16C is in the 15MW scale…

[Radium]

@molnibalage I have big doubts also. Maybe AIM-9X has some IR mode that allows you launch your missile on a TGP designated target or something… It’s technically possible but what I say here is purely speculative !

[Stevie]

@Radium - I was loaded with two AIM-9Ms…one of which I had fired to down the first Mig-21. On the Harrier config I was flying the AIM-9 had two acquisition modes - the first of which I tried only provided intermittent tone, and was why I selected Boresight for re-attack. And that did end up working by forcing the seeker to stare at the muzzles - but as I figured would happen, the ZSU probably ceased fire as soon as he saw the smoke in the air, and so the missile broke lock. At least that’s my theory.

I also have a feeling his engine may not have been running - the missile might have bit on that (the exhaust) if it had been. Which can also be a problem in shooing an IR MAV, or taking a FLIR lock on a tank or other running vehicle depending on how the lock is mechanized. You have to lock from an aspect that minimizes this effect in order to better insure a hit.

[Stevie]

@Radium - 9X may be on the Radar Harrier…dunno. I’m not even sure if JHMCS is on the Radar Harrier, and without it there’s really no utility to 9X.

I do know that neither Day Attack nor Night Attack Harriers incorporate(d) Joint Helmet. But once upon a time, there was also this AIM-9 variant -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-122_Sidearm

I never got to play with this one much…and I’m not really sure if it ever went into actual service or not.

[Stevie]

@Radium - not that I’m aware of. It will slave to Helmet or radar only.