IFF?

[tankm1a2]

Just wondering is there any other way to find if the enemy in a friendly or foe without asking AWACS?
Because i know the only way to identify if that radar signature is a friendly or foe is to visually see him and ask AWACS.

[Blu3wolf]

well, you can use the NCTR feature of the APG-68. If a contact is high aspect (coming towards you) then the radar can analyze the signature of the engine intakes and blades, and determine what aircraft the contact is.

IFF is not a method of determining whether an aircraft is hostile or not, it is a method of determining whether an aircraft is friendly or not.

All theaters IRL have their own ID matrix which is a series of steps to determine whether you are allowed to shoot or not. IFF is usually part of this matrix, near the top.

All this could have been found with a simple search for ‘IFF’ in this forum.

[Moxy]

…the NCTR feature of the APG-68. If a contact is high aspect (coming towards you) then the radar can analyze the signature of the engine intakes and blades, and determine what aircraft the contact is.

Wow, is this implemented in BMS? Does the contact have to be in a ‘hot’ aspect for the radar to ID it? And at what circumstances (contact speed/attitude, contact speed) can the radar preset you with an ID of the contact?

[roccio]

@mookar:

Wow, is this implemented in BMS? Does the contact have to be in a ‘hot’ aspect for the radar to ID it? And at what circumstances (contact speed/attitude, contact speed) can the radar preset you with an ID of the contact?

You can read all in the SuperPak 3 manual.pdf, page 74.

Non-cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR)
As soon as you lock up a radar contact in TWS or STT mode, the
NCTR system will try to identify the target by analyzing radar
signature details. During this process, “WAIT” will be displayed in the
top middle of the FCR.
If NCTR is successful, it will then display the actual target ID (e.g.
“MG25”) in the FCR. If NCTR fails, it will display UNKN (“unknown”)
instead.
Success for NCTR depends very much on the aspect to target, as it
relies heavily on radar returns from the engine compressor blades
and air intakes. Therefore, NCTR must be able to “see into” the engines of the target; this means
that your plane must point towards the target and be inside a 25° cone in front of it.
The NCTR range depends on the radar mode: in TWS, it’s only about 70% of what it is in STT.

[Blu3wolf]

@mookar:

Wow, is this implemented in BMS?

Im starting to question how many BVR setups you have done, if you have never noticed the NCTR readout in the FCR. Its in a pretty prominent location.

I found out about NCTR trying to work out what the heck the readout was telling me, rather than vice versa.

In any event, the following links point to the Lair of the Time Eater - follow at your own risk.

AllThereInTheManual

ReadTheFreakingManual

[Moxy]

Im starting to question how many BVR setups you have done, if you have never noticed the NCTR readout in the FCR. Its in a pretty prominent location.

I found out about NCTR trying to work out what the heck the readout was telling me, rather than vice versa.

In any event, the following links point to the Lair of the Time Eater - follow at your own risk.

No, no, buddy, I know that the jet’s systems try to ID a contact, I was reffering to the actual mechanics of it - getting info through the tgt’s blades

[Blu3wolf]

Well, that is the particular system that does the IDing in BMS. The other system that can display an ID in the FCR uses L16 track correlation, which obviously isnt implemented.

[Mower]

As we discuss IFF yet again, please PLEASE can we NOT have anyone fool enough to say it has little or no tactical value?

[Blu3wolf]

You might want to nail down a more precise definition for ‘tactical value’ I suppose.

Certainly its of value. Still, I think there is little to discuss - I believe the OPs question has been answered.

[Cloud 9]

@tankm1a2:

Just wondering is there any other way to find if the enemy in a friendly or foe without asking AWACS?

Lock him up and ask your wingie to Attack My Target!!! You’ll get a 100% correct answer with his response

C9

[Shadow]

It has little or no tactical value?

[Dee-Jay]

@Shadow:

It has little or no tactical value?

Normaly, no tactical value behind the FLOT since IFF are supposed to be switched off passing the SWITCH OFF LINE located 10 to 20Nm before the FLOT. IFF purpose is only to identify a friendly over friendly area to avoid frat kill if it is not complying with ACO publication. IFF can not be used to ID an hostile and can only ID a friendly (doesn’t necessarily mean that a non replying contact is an hostile as it could be a friendy without the right IFF or with a failing IFF device.)

IFF can be used over hostile area ony once air superiority or air supremacy is gained.

[Mower]

@Shadow:

It has little or no tactical value?

Someone always comes by and says so. Give it time.

But even in FF5, with its poor implementation, it was of IMMENSE tactical value in helping to sort “who’s who in the zoo”.

[Moxy]

…IFF are supposed to be switched off passing the SWITCH OFF LINE located 10 to 20Nm before the FLOT.

Why is that done?
IFF is an abslute must in the modern dynamics, no question about it. It has a lot of work to be done on in BMS though.

[Dee-Jay]

Simply because IFF is not a passive device and as I said, only to ID a friendly, not a foe (despite the name: Identification Friend or Foe). Main ID means over hostile area with a heavy AA threat are AWACS, L16, timings and altitude, radio (raygun call) … Sometimes also NCTR.

[Mower]

@Dee-Jay:

Main ID means over hostile area with a heavy AA threat are AWACS, L16, timings and altitude, radio (raygun call) … Sometimes also NCTR.

Sorry, disagree, those methods are too time consuming. Especially when Guard gets busy which it ALWAYS does online.

Online fliers will understand.

[Dee-Jay]

… Maybe, but this is just how it works in the real life.

If implemented and used realistically, IFF will not be the magic tool of you dreams.

Online, the main problem is radio discipline… Even sometimes in real. This is a fact.

[Aragorn]

@Cloud:

Lock him up and ask your wingie to Attack My Target!!! You’ll get a 100% correct answer with his response

Hee hee…

Script monkeys strike another blow…! Stop screwing with my suspension of disbelief, dude…!

[TeeSquare]

You can also soft lock the target and get a visual ID with the TGP at about 20nm.

[Mav-jp]

@Mower:

Sorry, disagree, those methods are too time consuming. Especially when Guard gets busy which it ALWAYS does online.

Online fliers will understand.

DJ tries to educate the community about how IFF is used in real operations

He is not interested into gaming