My battle with Falcon BMS 4.32 and Thrustmaster T.A.R.G.E.T.

[dutybooty66]

I am having a major repeating problem with using the Thrustmaster TARGET GUI/Script Writer and loading configuration files for sims to my HOTAS Warthog setup.

The software detects my TM Warthog HOTAS and 2 x MFD’s when in the main TARGET GUI editing environment but upon trying to load ANY config file for use in a game i get the following result after the software attempts to load the file:

*** Allocated ProcInstances found from the previous run: use FreeProcInstance() ***

Mapped plugin module “C:\Program Files (x86)\Thrustmaster\TARGET\Plugins\sys.dll”

Physical USB HID devices managed by script!

Currently plugged USB HID devices[4]:

1: “Joystick - HOTAS Warthog” - “USB\VID_044F&PID_0402&REV_0100”

2: “Throttle - HOTAS Warthog” - “USB\VID_044F&PID_0404&REV_0100”

3: “F16 MFD 2” - “USB\VID_044F&PID_B352&REV_0100”

4: “F16 MFD 1” - “USB\VID_044F&PID_B351&REV_0100”

Error: (internal) cannot associate a filter with the selected USB HID device “VID_044F&PID_0404”

Error: (internal) cannot associate a filter with the selected USB HID device “VID_044F&PID_0402”

Virtual HID devices managed by script!
Connecting virtual joystick…Done

Device name FAILED (0x00000002) - using default.

Connecting virtual keyboard…Done

Connecting virtual mouse…Done

main returned 0

This happens with every config file i have and that includes the stock ones included with the TM hardware such as DCS Black Shark etc.

Having delved into this at length over the last week (with zero success) i have established that the TARGET script, once run and despite the error message above is still creating the “Thrustmaster Virtual Joystick” (formerly “Thrustmaster Combined” i think?) but that it is totally non-functional in-sim? Or at least the majority of keystrokes and functions don’t work, certainy pitch, roll and yaw are all not working or responding and are not able to be calibrated in the Controls Options menu in-sim.

Problem is identical if i run a config from TARGET Script Writer as well.

My system is as follows:

ASUS G74SX Gaming Laptop
Intel Quad Core i7-2670QM @ 2.2 GHz Turbo Boost to 3.1 GHz.
16 GB RAM
GeForce GTX560M with 3 GB VRAM
Realtek On-board Sound Card
Windows 7 64 Bit
TrackIR 5 w/Pro Clip
Logitech G602 Gaming Mouse
Logitech Wifi Keyboard
Creative Rage3D Tactic Gaming Headset
Samsung 32 in. TV/Monitor on HDMI
TM HOTAS Warthog Stick & Throttle & 2 Cougar MFD’s
10 socket USB Hub used to connect some of the peripherals.

Solutions tried so far that haven’t worked:

1: Uninstall TARGET and re-install, numerous times.
2: Uninstall HOTAS Warthog Drivers from Control Panel Programs then re-install.
3: Updated TM HOTAs Firmware to latest versions (11 & 23)
4: Disconnect and re-connect all TM and all other devices when prompted to by the above 3 processes. Multiple system reboots and cold starts.
5: Sequential re-connection of key devices only (Mouse, Keyboard and HOTAS Stick & Throttle) whilst monitoring activity in Devices and Printers and Device Manager.
6: Confirmation that the the 2 devices referred to in the above error message are the TM Throttle and Stick (“VID_044F&PID_0404” and “VID_044F&PID_0402”).
7: Enable ALL the executables in Thrustmaster root folders with “Run as Administrator” priveleges.
8: Disable Firewall (Commodo & Windows) before, during and after re-insalls or running TARGET.
9: Connecting TM HOTAS directly to USB Ports on computer rather than through USB Hub.
10. Run TARGET GUI and Script Writer in various Windows compatibility modes as Admin.
11. Downloaded and tried numerous USB Diagnostic tools e.g USBDevView etc.
12. Tried generating a non-TARGET config for BMS with the Keyfile Generator by ragnar_darude. https://sourceforge.net/projects/keyfileeditor/
13: Scattering chicken bones, howling at the moon, rain dances, consulting a soothsayer!!!

Not sure if i’ve missed or forgotten anything but any assistance or ideas would be appreciated? I understand that most other sims don’t need TARGET to come up up with fairly comprehensive controller setup but it would appear to me that this is not the case with BMS? Question is what are all the non-Thrustmaster users doing?

If there is as it appears no solution to this problem is there a viable alternative to TARGET that can be used? I’ve never used FSUIPC so am not familiar with its capabilities as opposed to TARGET?

Thanks guys.

Stu

[dutybooty66]

Ok, bottom line then please guys?

Can i fly Falcon BMS 4.32 with TM Warthog HOTAS without using TARGET in any way?

If so, what is the best way forward?

Thanks v much.

[Focaldesign]

yes, DX (directInput).

[Icarus]

This post is deleted!

[OldGoat5]

Yes, just find the button inside the bms menu you want to map, then click on it with your mouse, then click the joystick button, then done.

[Vyper]

Quick question. Is your external USB hub powered by an external plug? If not, can cause a whole host of issues.

[dutybooty66]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for the assistance, regrettably i’m no further on? Vyper gave me a brief glimmer of hope with his reply about the external power for the hub. It wasn’t externally powered until you mentioned it but applying the external power, doing a restart etc still didn’t solve the problem.

With regards to the DX Input method, is it persistent? I’ve seen posts saying that BMS dumps its joystick assignments and keys when you exit and hence the need for TARGET or equivalent. Obviously if i can’t go down TARGET route i still don’t want to re-config axes and buttons every time i fly?

I even tried connecting the HOTAS to another PC tonight but for some reason the Joystick wasn’t getting detected on that system at all after installing the Warthog drivers twice? Joystick is working flawlessly on my main PC and in all other sims i have as well. The only problem i have seems to be with TARGET?

Any more ideas anyone?

Thanks again guys.

[Y0UNGBL00D]

i dont have it in front of me, but i thought it was supposed to say all that, then you minimize the window and fly the sim and everything works.

[Icarus]

@ dutybooty,
BMS dumps its assignments if the device order changes. It is easily remedied by putting back your saved config folder (I think it might be the callsign.pop file, not sure).

[Stubbies2003]

@dutybooty66:

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for the assistance, regrettably i’m no further on? Vyper gave me a brief glimmer of hope with his reply about the external power for the hub. It wasn’t externally powered until you mentioned it but applying the external power, doing a restart etc still didn’t solve the problem.

This is a strange one as both Vyper and I run Asus laptops. More specifically I also run with a powered USB hub and I have never seen the problems you are talking about. I was going to suggest the hub being the issue for the very reason that Vyper listed. Only suggestion I can give at this point is to use a different powered USB hub to verify that isn’t the issue.

@dutybooty66:

With regards to the DX Input method, is it persistent? I’ve seen posts saying that BMS dumps its joystick assignments and keys when you exit and hence the need for TARGET or equivalent. Obviously if i can’t go down TARGET route i still don’t want to re-config axes and buttons every time i fly?

This is PRECISELY why I run TARGET and key commands versus DX. I tried setting it up DX but the IDs would shift between reboots/uses without me connection of disconnecting anything so that what was a SSC command would now be on the MFD or some such. After I switched to key commands and TARGET I haven’t had any issues at all.

This also gives me the advantage of being able to set up multiple key presses to one button. Shifted MFD button to give me AWACS vector to threat/request help kind of commands (Q then 4 or Q then Q then 1) as a single button push rather than having to go to the keyboard for it.

@dutybooty66:

I even tried connecting the HOTAS to another PC tonight but for some reason the Joystick wasn’t getting detected on that system at all after installing the Warthog drivers twice? Joystick is working flawlessly on my main PC and in all other sims i have as well. The only problem i have seems to be with TARGET?

Any more ideas anyone?

Thanks again guys.

There has got to be something inducing this problem in TARGET. I’ve run it for years on my main system and on my laptop. The only issue I have ever had was self induced by playing around with TARGET code working on the programming. Especially since my laptop setup is very close to yours in configuration there has got to be something missing but your troubleshooting methods have been good so I’m not sure what it could be.

[Stubbies2003]

@Y0UNGBL00D:

i dont have it in front of me, but i thought it was supposed to say all that, then you minimize the window and fly the sim and everything works.

Close but not quite. I took a screens shot of my TARGET running normally so I could link it here in case that helps any. The very first line he quoted:

"*** Allocated ProcInstances found from the previous run: use FreeProcInstance() *** "

is NOT a line on my TARGET script when running. Other than his error messages it looks pretty much the same. Picture below:

[Focaldesign]

@Stubbies2003:

This is PRECISELY why I run TARGET and key commands versus DX. I tried setting it up DX but the IDs would shift between reboots/uses without me connection of disconnecting anything so that what was a SSC command would now be on the MFD or some such. After I switched to key commands and TARGET I haven’t had any issues at all.

I never have this issue, only when I place a known device into another port, or when I add a new USB DX device to my pc.
I’ve been flying over 18months without issues with the following devices all working with DX in BMS: Cougar stick, Cougar throttle via TUSBA, ICP via Arduino.

@Stubbies2003:

This also gives me the advantage of being able to set up multiple key presses to one button. Shifted MFD button to give me AWACS vector to threat/request help kind of commands (Q then 4 or Q then Q then 1) as a single button push rather than having to go to the keyboard for it.

You can have shifted DX buttons too, I have tons of them. A couple on my MFD’s voor awacs & tower calls. And some on my throttle (eg idle cutoff).

[dutybooty66]

Thanks again to all who have contributed help above, it’s most appreciated.

Another few hours spent last night trying to resolve this but without success. So i started working on a DX .key file to see how that goes (last option i guess?) So far, so good but as mentioned above i haven’t tried re-booting PC or sim yet so no idea if the assignments and axes with hold or not, probably not based on Stubbies comments. I guess i could live with a few amendments once in a while being required but every re-boot or sim exit might be pushing my tolerances somewhat!!!

Would locking the new DX .key file down as read-only once completed be any use? Obviously i have already made a backup. A bit spooky if BMS is capable of un-locking a file and then changing it as well!!! Lol!!

I do have another powered USB Hub that i will try, it only has 2 ports so would not be any good for my MFD’s but it’s worth a try? My only doubt about it’s validity is the fact that i’ve tried connecting the Joystick & Throttle direct to 2 separate laptop’s and the error still persists, to the letter in fact!! At least it’s repeatable!!

Anyway, update coming later, i have 3 days off as off this morning and the wife is away working in South Korea for a month so no distractions!!!

Thanks guys, every comment is appreciated!

[dutybooty66]

@Icarus:

@ dutybooty,
BMS dumps its assignments if the device order changes. It is easily remedied by putting back your saved config folder (I think it might be the callsign.pop file, not sure).

Hi Icarus,

Could you elaborate a bit on your comment above? Is it a file or folder i’m backing up and replacing? Happy with the device order comment, will keep an eye on that, so far no issues over last few re-boots though? I have JoyID to monitor and change order if required and also USBDev for more in depth info on each device.

Thanks mate.

[dutybooty66]

Am going to persevere for another day or two but if i can’t solve the TARGET issue and DX doesn’t work on 95% of sim flights then i guess it’s back to DCS A-10C until i get a new PC or controller setup and can hopefully re-visit BMS and run smoothly.

Pity, as i had both Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 when they were released and have missed playing them!

[Focaldesign]

@dutybooty66:

Am going to persevere for another day or two but if i can’t solve the TARGET issue and DX doesn’t work on 95% of sim flights then i guess it’s back to DCS A-10C until i get a new PC or controller setup and can hopefully re-visit BMS and run smoothly.

Pity, as i had both Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 when they were released and have missed playing them!

Read my reply a couple of posts above. I’ve been flying DX with 3 devices in BMS for more then a year without issues.

[dutybooty66]

@Focaldesign:

Read my reply a couple of posts above. I’ve been flying DX with 3 devices in BMS for more then a year without issues.

Hi Focal,

Thanks, but i must be doing something seriously wrong as i’ve just twice loaded the new DX .key file i spent 3 hours building last night and NONE of the commands work??? Axes are all cool but NO button presses, releases etc worked at all.

I used the Keyfile Generator tool from ragnar-darude’s page at SourceForge to build the file based on another one i had (Morphine’s i think?) It seems i am only able to program the buttons via the in-game interface? And then i’ve still not yet established if they persist after exit/re-start sim?

Maybe if you have some time you could post the exact process you followed for your setup and i’ll closely follow that?

Thanks mate.

[Focaldesign]

@dutybooty66:

Hi Focal,

Thanks, but i must be doing something seriously wrong as i’ve just twice loaded the new DX .key file i spent 3 hours building last night and NONE of the commands work??? Axes are all cool but NO button presses, releases etc worked at all.

I used the Keyfile Generator tool from ragnar-darude’s page at SourceForge to build the file based on another one i had (Morphine’s i think?) It seems i am only able to program the buttons via the in-game interface? And then i’ve still not yet established if they persist after exit/re-start sim?

Maybe if you have some time you could post the exact process you followed for your setup and i’ll closely follow that?

Thanks mate.

First determine what button ID your buttons on the stick & throttle have. Do so by going into BMS setup page where you have a view of the buttons/axis/keyfile and press for example the pickle switch (red weapon release button on the stick). Beneath the list of key commands you then see “Button 3” appear while pressing it. 3 of course just being an example.
That means your computer is seeing your joystick button as the third in a row of all possible buttons of all DX connected devices.
In your key file however, you need to extract 1 from that number, because BMS counts the first button as being “0”, not “1”. So when you see button 3 in the UI, use id 2 for that button. So that would be “SimPickle 2 8 -2 0 0x0 0”.
All the information on this is in the documentation somewhere (can’t tell it by heart here from work).

[dutybooty66]

@Focaldesign:

First determine what button ID your buttons on the stick & throttle have. Do so by going into BMS setup page where you have a view of the buttons/axis/keyfile and press for example the pickle switch (red weapon release button on the stick). Beneath the list of key commands you then see “Button 3” appear while pressing it. 3 of course just being an example.
That means your computer is seeing your joystick button as the third in a row of all possible buttons of all DX connected devices.
In your key file however, you need to extract 1 from that number, because BMS counts the first button as being “0”, not “1”. So when you see button 3 in the UI, use id 2 for that button. So that would be “SimPickle 2 8 -2 0 0x0 0”.
All the information on this is in the documentation somewhere (can’t tell it by heart here from work).

Ok Focal, i hear what you’re saying and now assume that the Keyfile Generator application by Red_Dog i used to compose my new .key file that is not working as it should be or i’m using it incorrectly?

So will the BMS-DX-Generator 1_6.xls spreadsheet/tool by Kolbe (in the BMS-User-Joystick-Generic-Kolbe folder) be ok to use to do this editing or is it literally a case of typing/copy/pasting all that hex-code stuff directly into the keyfile in Notepad++???

Because if it is i’m not sure my will to live will survive that experience!! I’m pretty much at the end of my rope with this to be honest? It says the Warthog page in the BMS-DX-Generator 1_6.xls tool is Work In Progress too so i’m not exactly confident that’s going to be a pain free experience using that either!

Can’t believe how difficult this is to resolve, been flight-simming a LONG time and not sure i’ve encountered anything as complex and frustrating?

[Focaldesign]

@dutybooty66:

Ok Focal, i hear what you’re saying and now assume that the Keyfile Generator application by Red_Dog i used to compose my new .key file that is not working as it should be or i’m using it incorrectly?

So will the BMS-DX-Generator 1_6.xls spreadsheet/tool by Kolbe (in the BMS-User-Joystick-Generic-Kolbe folder) be ok to use to do this editing or is it literally a case of typing/copy/pasting all that hex-code stuff directly into the keyfile in Notepad++???

Because if it is i’m not sure my will to live will survive that experience!! I’m pretty much at the end of my rope with this to be honest? It says the Warthog page in the BMS-DX-Generator 1_6.xls tool is Work In Progress too so i’m not exactly confident that’s going to be a pain free experience using that either!

Can’t believe how difficult this is to resolve, been flight-simming a LONG time and not sure i’ve encountered anything as complex and frustrating?

There’s nothing complex to it?
The xls I never used, faster typing it by hand where necessary.
If you’re using the excel, be sure to set the starting ID number for your devices correctly.
Can you post here what the pickle switch ID nr is when pressing it in BMS config UI, and the extract of your key file regarding the stick to compare?