Weapons Impact angle- will it be implemented in BMS?

[Nickos86]

Hi, the angle of impact has a direct connection to some crucial parameters that determine the amount of damage that will be implicated to the target (like penetration).
With Jdam or other guided weapons there is the possibility to determine this angle- allowing a small GBU-39 bomb to effectively penetrate a hardened shelter
(

).

For instance, F-16 can lunch 8 GBU-39 at a runway, the orthogonal angle of impact will allows them to penetrate deeper into the ground and destroy the runway. This attack can be made out of distance with no need to use BLU-107 bombs…

Is there a plan to add a constant/formula to link the damage of the weapon and the angle of impact?

Thanks!

[Dee-Jay]

Before, we would need to implement the different fuses and different weapon/object damages.

[Blu3wolf]

@Dee-Jay:

Before, we would need to implement the different fuses and different weapon/object damages.

This is pretty key. BMS (or any version of falcon) does not differentiate well between types of weapon effects and targets.

It would also make the current tacref pretty much completely obsolete (its close but not quite there yet).

[TobiasA]

@Blu3wolf:

This is pretty key. BMS (or any version of falcon) does not differentiate well between types of weapon effects and targets.

It would also make the current tacref pretty much completely obsolete (its close but not quite there yet).

The difference between penetrating warheads like a bunker buster or a CBU is not that bad. No Bunker is ever destroyed by a CBU. You can drop a penetrator LGB on a single unit and kill it- but that’s not efficient.

I don’t think that having it technically right doesn’t add that much immersion. I always choose the penetrator type for hardened targets, HE/frag type for “softer” targets, CBU’s for units and LGB’s for precision strikes on (moving) ground units. JDAM’s are not correctly modeled, so I’m almost not using those. Choosing the right weapon is part of the realism for me, I would not even try to use standard warheads on bunkers or penetrator types on a bridge. I imagine that it won’t work, and most of the time, it doesn’t.
It would be cool though to have it.

[Blu3wolf]

@TobiasA:

I don’t think that having it technically right doesn’t add that much immersion. I always choose the penetrator type for hardened targets, HE/frag type for “softer” targets, CBU’s for units and LGB’s for precision strikes on (moving) ground units. JDAM’s are not correctly modeled, so I’m almost not using those.

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. immersion depends on the pilot and operator of the sim as much as it does the developer.

Still, it would be cool if the choice you correctly made did impact on (totally punintentional) the weapon effects.

It would also be cool if we could program the impact angle of a JDAM from the air, or set the flight path of a JASSM during mission planning - but we cannot.

[uri_ba]

@Nickos86:

Is there a plan to add a constant/formula to link the damage of the weapon and the angle of impact?

Thanks!

there is no link between impact angle and damage.

impact angle affects the weapons ability to penetrate and to clear obstructions.
AFAIK, IRL, SDB against a runway is useless. it will make a nice clean hole and detonate, but the damage would be minor as the warhead is quite small… it’s not a BLU107.

however, shouldn’t you be wishing for a GBU-39 first?

[Blu3wolf]

@uri_ba:

there is no link between impact angle and damage.

impact angle affects the weapons ability to penetrate and to clear obstructions.
AFAIK, IRL, SDB against a runway is useless. it will make a nice clean hole and detonate, but the damage would be minor as the warhead is quite small… it’s not a BLU107.

however, shouldn’t you be wishing for a GBU-39 first?

The BLU-107 is also equipped with a pretty small warhead. The BLU-107 has a 330lb explosive warhead, while the SDB has a 206lb explosive warhead.

The BLU-107 would penetrate further however, which would be the biggest difference. Why would it penetrate further? Due to the big rocket motor on the back, that’s why.

IRL there most certainly is a link between impact angle and penetrative power, which in turn against hardened targets corresponds with a link to damage.

The reason a durandal is so effective is due to its penetrative power, not its warhead. It outperforms Mk84s in the runway cratering role - which as you know have a filling of 945lbs HE.

[Amraam]

One of the main reason to set a highest impact angle is to avoid bomb bounce on the target. And it can happen with some concrete surfaces. On the other side, it will reduce the range of the release (for JDAM).
So, it’s mainly a choose between enough penetration vs pickle range. Not really for damage effect itself.

[Eagle-Eye]

@Dee-Jay:

Before, we would need to implement the different fuses and different weapon/object damages.

And please, a blast/damage radius. So we can drop a Mk84 in the middle of a group of soldier and kill more than just a single unit, or miss a structure by X feet and still (seriously) damage it.

[Arty]

@Dee-Jay:

Before, we would need to implement the different fuses and different weapon/object damages.

hmmm why ain’t already this the case?
IIRC you set values for those Weapon/Object damage.

[seojoonho001]

@Eagle-Eye:

And please, a blast/damage radius. So we can drop a Mk84 in the middle of a group of soldier and kill more than just a single unit, or miss a structure by X feet and still (seriously) damage it.

+1. GBU24 on a tank should get rid of more than 1 tank if they are close together. Etc Etc.

[l3crusader]

@Eagle-Eye:

And please, a blast/damage radius. So we can drop a Mk84 in the middle of a group of soldier and kill more than just a single unit, or miss a structure by X feet and still (seriously) damage it.

There is one already.

And you can kill 2 tanks with a GBU-12 ! if you aim in between them in a typical tank colum/line.

@seojoonho001:

+1. GBU24 on a tank should get rid of more than 1 tank if they are close together. Etc Etc.

This I’m not so sure.

If the tank is sealed, no blast effect will affect it. And I’m not certain the fragment could penetrate the armor. Maybe a mobility kill on the tracks though.

[Eagle-Eye]

@l3crusader:

There is one already.

And you can kill 2 tanks with a GBU-12 ! if you aim in between them in a typical tank colum/line.

Is that also the case with buildings and structures? I did a test not too long ago, dropping 2 GBU-24’s in between the 2 radio towers in the screen below, and it reported a miss, damaging absolutely nothing. Watching footage of what devastation a single 2000lbs bomb can do, those radio towers should have been vaporized.

[uri_ba]

Falcon damage is made out of two factors, damage and radius. In general penetration weapons have high damage and low radius. HE have lower damage per pound and a larger radius.

It is possible that the GBU-24 is considered a penetrating weapon, and the radius is small enoght to cause no damage to nearby targets.

[l3crusader]

@uri_ba:

It is possible that the GBU-24 is considered a penetrating weapon, and the radius is small enoght to cause no damage to nearby targets.

Actually you have 2 GBU-24 types, one penetrating (BLU-109 warhead) and the other one straight HE (Mk84 warhead). Cant remember which has which name ATM, but the HE one has a curvy body

[Scuby]

@l3crusader:

Actually you have 2 GBU-24 types, one penetrating (BLU-109 warhead) and the other one straight HE (Mk84 warhead). Cant remember which has which name ATM, but the HE one has a curvy body

Not to worry L3, i’ve got your back!

all paveway/gbu types nicely in order:
http://wiki.scramble.nl/index.php/Paveway

24/B is MK84 and High Explosive
24A/B is BLU109 and Penatrator

Ps. I like curved bodies too

[l3crusader]

@Scuby:

Not to worry L3, i’ve got your back!

Ps. I like curved bodies too

I knew somebody was going to pick up on that :mrgreen:

[TobiasA]

@l3crusader:

I knew somebody was going to pick up on that :mrgreen:

Yeah, I like curved bodies too. But I don’t like them to be HE (high explosive) :shock::rofl: