WIP: Leopard 2 A5
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Looks really really good. As usual in your work.
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would it be even better if u used a 1x4096 than 2x2048 or 4x1024 or 8x512? or in your optimization tests found that 2048 is the equilibrium point.
Example airbases they have a serious amount of textures… the old ones instead of the new ones like kimpo that uses just 7 IIRC.So as Demer said (using materials instead of textures is better) if using materials instead of textures the effect is the same? also if u think materials are light and u use much of them like 10 -15 materials instead of 4 textures of 2048 then u can have the opposite result? have you done some tests on that?
Also just in case, another point of hard proof why BMS team must have the 3d source files. In case a massive optimization like this needs to be done just to ease up the engine.
About materials … asking cause this one sounded as an ease of work for my buildings project. So just use 3-4 materials and just play with color brightness etc… wouldn’t it be better instead of using like +100 textures?
Nice work again Arek……!!!
To Artys point…I took some time today to show us\redo some tests as to my already proved to me “Proof of Concept”……;)
First pic is CCC’s FFG Perry @ 126 Tris and textured\DOF’d along with my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone @ 29,000 Tris……but no texture’s and only Material mapping.
Second pic is CCC’s model alone. Though still in the taskforce (other models within the booble affect each other……;) )
Third pic is my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone alone but still in the Task force. I have only Textured with “Materials” the gun and Helo Pad @ this time.As we can see, there is a significant FPS gain using this technique.
Also, as stated to Radium, I only use this technique for Low Priority models ATM… I cannot imagine the Falcon time it would take to do a complex model this way……LOL!!! BUT, I guess you could if you wanted to (I see divorce court coming……LOL!!!)
I am using this technique in upcoming GUAM for Das Boots because the Capital ships are HUGH (Features) on the moving objective. I need to save the FPS budget where I can……sighAs well, using only 2 pTypes allows me to target only those Polys that I want to illuminate at night…instead of ADDING carrier lights.blk et al (just more Tris to the Model)
Cheers,
The Illuminati -
Nice work again Arek……!!!
To Artys point…I took some time today to show us\redo some tests as to my already proved to me “Proof of Concept”……;)
First pic is CCC’s FFG Perry @ 126 Tris and textured\DOF’d along with my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone @ 29,000 Tris……but no texture’s and only Material mapping.
Second pic is CCC’s model alone. Though still in the taskforce (other models within the booble affect each other……;) )
Third pic is my conversion of Army Souls FFG Boone alone but still in the Task force. I have only Textured with “Materials” the gun and Helo Pad @ this time.As we can see, there is a significant FPS gain using this technique.
Also, as stated to Radium, I only use this technique for Low Priority models ATM… I cannot imagine the Falcon time it would take to do a complex model this way……LOL!!! BUT, I guess you could if you wanted to (I see divorce court coming……LOL!!!)
I am using this technique in upcoming GUAM for Das Boots because the Capital ships are HUGH (Features) on the moving objective. I need to save the FPS budget where I can……sighAs well, using only 2 pTypes allows me to target only those Polys that I want to illuminate at night…instead of ADDING carrier lights.blk et al (just more Tris to the Model)
Cheers,
The IlluminatiOk I don’t understand.
I have only Textured with “Materials” the gun and Helo Pad @ this time.
you mean you created a dds texture for gun and helipad?
I done some models with material only and as I can see it u use blinn only and you play with color on Diffuse only right?
For the illuminated at night u set the ptype correctly u create the switch and that way how you do it without a texture? IIRC it needs a texture (dds) to alter the settings for the ptype to be set correctly from 3ds.
Unless:
1. u do it from lodeditor.
2. U select texture but don’t set a texture and just alter the settings to have the effect, and it works like it has a texture but displays the color u set in diffuse?Edit: ok I played a little with those… when u export it gets the 0.dds as default texture. so it fubars the displayed model, but if u erase the texture setting from LE then it shows ok.
Also about the night light u declare a bitmap for mapping but u don’t set an actual image u just set the settings and the switch and it works. -
Ok I don’t understand.
you mean you created a dds texture for gun and helipad?I done some models with material only and as I can see it u use blinn only and you play with color on Diffuse only right?
For the illuminated at night u set the ptype correctly u create the switch and that way how you do it without a texture? IIRC it needs a texture (dds) to alter the settings for the ptype to be set correctly from 3ds.
Unless:
1. u do it from lodeditor.
2. U select texture but don’t set a texture and just alter the settings to have the effect, and it works like it has a texture but displays the color u set in diffuse?Edit: ok I played a little with those… when u export it gets the 0.dds as default texture. so it fubars the displayed model, but if u erase the texture setting from LE then it shows ok.
Also about the night light u declare a bitmap for mapping but u don’t set an actual image u just set the settings and the switch and it works.U are getting there……
TUT it up when you are done, please.
Remember I stated in other post’s that “NO texture’s were harmed” meant that none were used.Cheers,
demer a.k.a. The Illuminati…LOL!! -
Well In my tests doesn’t look very nice… a lot of monotony, have to work on it.
Trying to create a procedural rule that maybe will make it look plural and not repetitive, also alongside trying the materials thus with texture but not having to uv map the thing.
Using texture materials is the problem thing, cause the procedural tool doesn’t use dds format where the 3ds must declare a dds, thus using a color for material and not a texture looks more easy when u have to build some xxx.xxx models. Sure I can create a set of files (a library) and work with them but square textures fubar buildings creation… they need - work better with parallel ones… facades.For starters I might go with colors and variation mostly playing at the gray area… but that way all buildings will be like fresh painted.
Right now I’m searching how to easily set the windows and their illumination at night so the city will look alive at night and not have to do all by hand… like setting a rule of 30% -40% of windows to be illuminated and the rest to be dark… this will make a good night city landscape for sure.
hmmm after that with the night street from lamps lighting there could be a combination of just points and there put the lighted areas and boom u have lighted buildings and lighted streets… hmmm
Damn I only have one week of vacations and I’m already way tired and I really need that rest cause a hard working winter is waiting for me…
So it will take the long lonely path.Edit: Eghi really sorry for high jacking your thread. I hope u understand that when 3ds for Falcon matters hit the surface a lot of harpoons try to catch the pray. And as Johny 5 used to say: “Input I need more Input”…
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Maybe time to start a new thread so we may fully explore\exploit this and leave Arek’s great work to continue???
demer
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Out of the box triggers out of the box types to come together.
I appreciate all of this thread.
Eghi, please continue! -
Just to get this right, … in case of smoothing groups (SG) for example …
I know we should use max. 3 SGs, so if I have modelled a untextured tank like Eghi did,
and I have used only SG1, SG2, SG3 and one ptype for the whole model,
then this model will have 4 draw calls, one for each SG + 1 ptype?Hi Lazy, TBH I’m not sure regarding draw calls for smoothing groups, will try to get some answer.
would it be even better if u used a 1x4096 than 2x2048 or 4x1024 or 8x512? or in your optimization tests found that 2048 is the equilibrium point.
Example airbases they have a serious amount of textures… the old ones instead of the new ones like kimpo that uses just 7 IIRC.So as Demer said (using materials instead of textures is better) if using materials instead of textures the effect is the same? also if u think materials are light and u use much of them like 10 -15 materials instead of 4 textures of 2048 then u can have the opposite result? have you done some tests on that?
Also just in case, another point of hard proof why BMS team must have the 3d source files. In case a massive optimization like this needs to be done just to ease up the engine.
About materials … asking cause this one sounded as an ease of work for my buildings project. So just use 3-4 materials and just play with color brightness etc… wouldn’t it be better instead of using like +100 textures?
Hi Arty, no 2048 isn’t some magic number, I just used it as an example. The idea is that using 1 large texture is better than many small ones. Texture coordinates for a 3D mesh are saved for each vertex so changing coordinates is better than changing a texture.
I’m not sure I quite understand the idea of material and texture replacement, Changing material will generate extra draw calls because 3D properties are changed, same for changing textures… so the rules are simple:
1. Use as less textures as possible for a 3D model.
2. Use 1 material for a model if possible, use other only if you have to.I won’t try to analyze Deamer’s example above, because simply you can’t really analyze 3D rendering by FPS in Falcon, there are many variants that can cause FPS differences (e.g sometimes if you enter the same mission without exiting Falcon, u will see lower FPS than first entry…), in order to analyze 3D rendering, special tools must be used or special code that can display specific information of the 3D rendered picture (number of resterised vertices, number of draw calls etc).
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I won’t try to analyze Deamer’s example above, because simply you can’t really analyze 3D rendering by FPS in Falcon, there are many variants that can cause FPS differences (e.g sometimes if you enter the same mission without exiting Falcon, u will see lower FPS than first entry…), in order to analyze 3D rendering, special tools must be used or special code that can display specific information of the 3D rendered picture (number of resterised vertices, number of draw calls etc).
which I hope - wish we will have the ability to view in the near future as we do now by using the ctrl z L command… or even better inside Falcon Editor…
So either using materials or textures the effect is the same… thing is u can use 4096 or 8192 textures like 2 of them for a large object and save the pain of using 6-10 materials, and maybe go by 2 materials. If u want your object to light up at night then u can’t avoid the second material.
And when we say material we are talking about 3ds materials or Falcon materials? cause 3ds materials can be 100 of them but when exported there are only 2 ptypes, and in my understanding the ptypes are falcon materials. Are the ptypes the materials that count or the 3ds max materials that count?
Cause if it’s ptypes then by using 1000 different materials in 3ds that result to 2 ptypes then it’s better. -
Hi Lazy, TBH I’m not sure regarding draw calls for smoothing groups, will try to get some answer.
WD talked about SGs in post # 32.
Do exist a list what exactly do force draw calls?
- each used ptype !
- each used SG ???
- mapping (projection) ???
- etc. ???
Cheers,
LS -
Are the ptypes the materials that count or the 3ds max materials that count?
ptypes
Cheers,
LS -
Guys I summed up our posts in this thread:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7712-PinkyandBrains-Beginners-guide&p=328545&viewfull=1#post328545So let’s continue our research there and leave Eghi’s wonderful thread in it’s peace…
Edit: Oh I already have a question in the new post - thread…
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Job done.
LOD1 2424 tris:LOD2 790 tris:
LOD3 283 tris:
LOD4 is simple BOX not textured.
LODs destroyed- WIP (a few hours of work)
On texture I have a space for the next 5 vehicles.
Next - this baby:cheers,
EGHI -
Really really nice! GOOD work Eghi!
BMS needs guys like you (precisely).
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Thanks mate… I’m waiting for Radium assessment.
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Piece of art
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wonderful, thank you!
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Nice model m8. Maybe we can have the option to see it in Greek camo?
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Nice job indeed !