F22 Raptor Vs Euro Fighter
-
With the kind of countermeasures/maneuver that we do and evade missiles, its likely that f-22 would have get into some dirty dogfights, even in real world.
-
Serious question. Where is all of this information coming from (I.e. credible source…not some guy with a blog that likes to hear himself talk) or is it just flight sim jockey speculation.
-
Sooooooo……back to the flight models in BMS? Which was the whole reason I clicked on this thread
-
What this guys says about BVR combat is nonsense. Never, ever, a missile has to pull 300 Gs to get a maneuvering AC. Against a guy pulling N Gs, a missile has to pull between N and 3N G, regardless of speed. This whole “missile should have same turn radius as target” is absolutely stupid.
What that guy Picard578 says about 90% of the time is clueless nonsense and I am surprised that it is being quoted on here. The site may look presentable but Picard is an amateur blogger with a very poor understanding of aerodynamics and aerial combat.
-
What that guy Picard578 says about 90% of the time is clueless nonsense and I am surprised that it is being quoted on here. The site may look presentable but Picard is an amateur blogger with a very poor understanding of aerodynamics and aerial combat.
What are some solid sources to read on aircraft capabilities and the subject of BFM?
-
What are some solid sources to read on aircraft capabilities and the subject of BFM?
As a basic start F-16 COMBAT AIRCRAFT FUNDAMENTALS is in your BMS docs folder e.g. C:\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Operational Manuals
also recommend:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighter-Combat-Manoeuvring-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599
You could also search for Basic ACM by AS on here….adds to the F-16 fundamentals above
-
As a basic start F-16 COMBAT AIRCRAFT FUNDAMENTALS is in your BMS docs folder e.g. C:\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Operational Manuals
also recommend:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fighter-Combat-Manoeuvring-Robert-Shaw/dp/0870210599
You could also search for Basic ACM by AS on here….adds to the F-16 fundamentals above
Thanks. Im sure ill find plenty if info on this forum.
-
ROE aside the new doctrine as of today and not the 1990s is you won’t know who is shooting at you and who is designating you either. You could be designated by a F-22 but shot at by a ship, helicopter, drone, whatever. The information being shared by 5 Gen aircraft is the game changer including existing airframes being that are being updated. As I mentioned the game has changed dramatically. As for an FM in BMS regarding the F-22 I’m sure it’s a rough guess at this point.
-
What are some solid sources to read on aircraft capabilities and the subject of BFM?
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf Chapter 4 is one of my favorite references.
-
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/docs/16v5.pdf Chapter 4 is one of my favorite references.
Too cool,thanks…Very in-depth……I kept scrolling looking for classification markings!
-
Today having a ROE that states you must Vis ID is of no use if the other guys don’t have that and you just get a missile in the face. In Nam you were faced with Cannon and AA-2s so Vis ID was less of an issue. In Sidra the bad guys had Export MiGs with rear aspect missiles. Today you cant screw around with something that can employ an all aspect weapon at range. As a side note it is claimed that platforms like AWACs and 5th Gen aircraft have have a lot more ways of Identifying aircraft than traditional 4th Gen jets sensors.
Well, most 4th gen jets do not have any real ELINT capability. You have any emissions at all, its possible to narrow down what you are. If you can be narrowed down to a hostile type, thats not good for you. AWACS do have more options for IDing contacts than 4th gen jets. Of course, there is tradeoffs there. AWACS cant really tell a radar contacts altitude to more than the closest 10,000 feet, for instance. Nor can they VID.
As far as the ROE, whether it is of use is not what determines whether you have to follow it or not. The guys drafting the ROE have to work that tradeoff - balancing the possibility of shooting down something that they should not have, against the possibility that being too restrictive could put their guys in dangerous situations where they cannot employ weapons with minimum risk. If you go into contingency ops, you dont really expect clearance to employ BVR. If you go into a shooting war with China, not having that ability will get you and your squadron killed.
-
Well, most 4th gen jets do not have any real ELINT capability. You have any emissions at all, its possible to narrow down what you are. If you can be narrowed down to a hostile type, thats not good for you. AWACS do have more options for IDing contacts than 4th gen jets. Of course, there is tradeoffs there. AWACS cant really tell a radar contacts altitude to more than the closest 10,000 feet, for instance. Nor can they VID.
As far as the ROE, whether it is of use is not what determines whether you have to follow it or not. The guys drafting the ROE have to work that tradeoff - balancing the possibility of shooting down something that they should not have, against the possibility that being too restrictive could put their guys in dangerous situations where they cannot employ weapons with minimum risk. If you go into contingency ops, you dont really expect clearance to employ BVR. If you go into a shooting war with China, not having that ability will get you and your squadron killed.
This short series might be of some interest
-
Thanks, I’ll check it out.
-
I wonder how many fighter combat vets read these forums and think, “Man these guys know nothing of what they speak” and just laugh.
-
I went to Red Flag in Vegas with my squadron and the pilots said that when the Raptors were in the air no one had a chance. They said the Raptors would appear out of nowhere and get several kills before anyone knew what was going on. Then disappear and be nowhere to be found. The pilots would get this funny grin on their faces when they talked about it and all anyone could talk about was if anyone in Red Flag had took out a Raptor. Every squadron was obsessed with taking out a Raptor. The pilots laughed as if it was a joke because the Raptors were so superior. The Raptors also rarely went up.
-
I went to Red Flag in Vegas with my squadron and the pilots said that when the Raptors were in the air no one had a chance. They said the Raptors would appear out of nowhere and get several kills before anyone knew what was going on. Then disappear and be nowhere to be found. The pilots would get this funny grin on their faces when they talked about it and all anyone could talk about was if anyone in Red Flag had took out a Raptor. Every squadron was obsessed with taking out a Raptor. The pilots laughed as if it was a joke because the Raptors were so superior. The Raptors also rarely went up.
“If they can bleed, we kill them”.
-
guys in the Raptors be like
-
“If they can bleed, we kill them”.
You have to find them first……
You can not kill what you can not see. And even by chance, you could see them (visually), you radar and weapons will have a very hard time locking on to them. Same goes for the F-35.
-
You have to find them first……
Yes!
You can not kill what you can not see.
Define “see”. In what spectrum? Optical? Radar? And what bands? IR? Thermal?
There ARE solutions, but you will not hear them from the “sides” that produce those birds… Physics science is not only discover, but also alternate or hide, as necessary…
you radar and weapons will have a very hard time locking on to them. Same goes for the F-35.
Maths and geometry-dance don’t lie. Yes it is difficult, more difficult with older designs and to make all players dance the same steps, but sooner or later, some smaller items (eg a new ramjet BVR missile with twin sensor system) can make the difference.
-
I’m sure if they’ve posted here about something, someone has argued with them that they’re wrong and they’ve left lol
I wonder how many fighter combat vets read these forums and think, “Man these guys know nothing of what they speak” and just laugh.