F-4 Phantom Family ANYONE? (to 3d model builders)

[Manos1981]

Hi there folks. Does anybody will make any new models for the phantoms? I know its pain in the ass to build the whole family but even some comon models (E-F,B-C-D,the navy ones and G) will be much appriciated its the only 3d model besides -E (and that only in EMF) that is left as it was couple of years ago. I know that not many countrie use them but if you want to make a historical scenario or theater it is needed…
Thanks, Manos

PS. the variants i seperate with a coma are very comon between them i mean E+F, B+c+D etc so it might norrow it down to 4 3d models

[tbuc]

Indeed. F-4s were very important until recently.
F-5s and MIG-21s also deserve better models, specially the 21s. They were sold to almost every country and had until recently more numbers operational than any F-16, F-18, F-15, MIG-29 etc. If the criteria to model an airplane is the number of aircraft operational at all, than the 21s should definitelly be in the list.

[lazystone]

@tbuc:

If the criteria to model an airplane is the number of aircraft operational at all, than the 21s should definitelly be in the list.

I think in BMS the criteria to model an airplane is how much is it used in
the campaign, how old is the model in DB, and what AC a “free” modeller want to create.

And there are many models which are worse than F-4 or MiG-21, IMHO.

Cheers,
LS

[Dee-Jay]

@lazystone:

And there are many models which are worse than F-4 or MiG-21, IMHO.

yep … way way worse.

[Radium]

I can’t imagine the liveries and models nightmare it would be to please everybody…

F-4E USAF,

Then ROKAF,

Then IDF,

Then JASDF at least for me,

Then Greek people will legitimately request one,

Then, if we make Greek, we have to make Turkish ones…

Then some will request Wild Weasel versions…

You see the nightmare?

[Raptor]

@Radium:

Then Greek people will legitimately request one

:wfish:

[Radium]

@Raptor:

:wfish:

Am I not right?

[crazyTom]

@tbuc:

Indeed. F-4s were very important until recently.
F-5s and MIG-21s also deserve better models, specially the 21s. They were sold to almost every country and had until recently more numbers operational than any F-16, F-18, F-15, MIG-29 etc. If the criteria to model an airplane is the number of aircraft operational at all, than the 21s should definitelly be in the list.

F-5s are also a really beautiful plane family-and fun to fly once the excessive roll overdrive is eliminated… The models in the BMS database are not so bad , only the canopy and the front section (for that wannabee recon F-5E version) need some fintetune.
I assume with TOPOLO’s next FM and a dedicated pit those could be extreme fun in an 80s scenario. Not to mention Molny added an F-20 in the Korea 80s theatre.

[molnibalage]

@Radium:

I can’t imagine the liveries and models nightmare it would be to please everybody…

F-4E USAF,

Then ROKAF,

Then IDF,

Then JASDF at least for me,

Then Greek people will legitimately request one,

Then, if we make Greek, we have to make Turkish ones…

Then some will request Wild Weasel versions…

You see the nightmare?

As long as Falcon is not able to model the minor differences between USAF, TuAF, HAF, etc F-4E IMHO a singe “general” but HQ model is more then enough for F-4E. If the 3D model and the skin palette is good n+1 very talented skinmakers will make the n+1 national skins. So we do not need n+1 3D model we need only one…

In RL MiG-21MF and MiG-21bis are not identical but in level of Falcon the only visible differences are some antennas and longer dorsal fuselage tank for bis (bis-AP, bis-AP2) So if you do not want to really super accurate 3D model also you need only one. BTW as long as rack (and weapons) looks are as it is and not the correct are used the result would look very weird… A very HQ red skin with amzing skin… aaaaaaaaaand skinless and 20-30 poly rack. Ehm…

MiG-23MF vs ML? A slight different stabilizer and also only minor differences. We are speaking very close realted 3D model. So if you have made one the another requires only about 5-10% work or the first one.

Etc. Currently F-15A/C have the same 3D model as I know. Does anybody care about is? I do not. Falcon is not DCS where many AC will get more and more its own cockpit and (A)FM. I do not see the time when old AC before “MFD age” will be flyable well even without AFM so except some first line AC this modeling methoid is fine. A single “generalized” 3D model according to requriements of Falcon is fine, I cannot see any nightmare.

If I had the 3D modeling skills I would have done the them long time ago…

[I-Hawk]

What’s wrong with the models in EMF? they aren’t same models as in KTO IIRC, even if old, the improved model that is currently in EMF is not THAT bad IMHO.

[Manos1981]

@I-Hawk:

What’s wrong with the models in EMF? they aren’t same models as in KTO IIRC, even if old, the improved model that is currently in EMF is not THAT bad IMHO.

I didnt say its bad model at all, its a descent model (90% for me as it really based in FF model with minor fixes) but still its something missing.
@Molni.As i said i wouldn’t have a problem with only a narrow number of 4 models to cover the general Phantom family i really dont have a problem for your example (f-15 a+c that shares the same model after all the electronics and other stuff not visible are the changes), ok lets make them 5 with the raf phantom cause their tail is different, so we have one model for versions E,F,EJ,ESK,I with changes inside and in armament,one for A,C,D again with the same changes,one for G (its one of a kind) one for B,J,N,S (navy ones) and one for K,M for the english ones. I dont think it will be so difficult for the skinners out there to make liveries for those, i believe the hardest part is to make the 3d model it self. Oh and ok i forgot to metion the -R variant again its one model cause the RF-4C and RF-4E was practically the same.

In general now, i didnt say that other models aren’t needing of a good lod F-5 for sure,MiG’s also and many other and if someone as i said in my original post want to make a historical theater such as NAM, i know still its in alpha stage,but i know someday someone will publish it or Israel. But anyway i know its difficult but i would love to see it some day.

[molnibalage]

so we have one model for versions E,F,EJ,ESK,I

I agree, this is the core F-4 3D model the major F-4 variant.

with changes inside and in armament,one for A,C,D

F-4D it seems to me is literally F-4E just without gun and some wing mechanization. Just a very minor alteration of E. Any F-4 version before F-4D/E from my aspect are pointless. They are way OOTF considering any Falcon theater environment and modeling issues. Except video makers no one literally ever use neither in TE and especially in campaigns. So F-4D 3D model is very close to F-4E not a totally new just a slight modified F-4E.

again with the same changes,one for G

This also looks very similarly to F-4E so even it major still also mean a very little alteration of THE F-4 3D model, the E variant. You can call it major version but in fact just an altered F-4E, we are not talking about buliding another 3D model from scratch, most of differences are around the nose section.

(its one of a kind) one for B,J,N,S (navy ones)

Except N/S the others as just OOTF as other land based variant. “S” was quite marginal in RL as I know only a very few flew until the mid '80s and Hornet replaced the F-4 in the Navy.

and one for K,M for the english ones.

3rd major version.

[Manos1981]

@molnibalage:

I agree, this is the core F-4 3D model the major F-4 variant.

F-4D it seems to me is literally F-4E just without gun and some wing mechanization. Just a very minor alteration of E. Any F-4 version before F-4D/E from my aspect are pointless. They are way OOTF considering any Falcon theater environment and modeling issues. Except video makers no one literally ever use neither in TE and especially in campaigns. So F-4D 3D model is very close to F-4E not a totally new just a slight modified F-4E.

This also looks very similarly to F-4E so even it major still also mean a very little alteration of THE F-4 3D model, the E variant. You can call it major version but in fact just an altered F-4E, we are not talking about buliding another 3D model from scratch, most of differences are around the nose section.

Except N/S the others as just OOTF as other land based variant. “S” was quite marginal in RL as I know only a very few flew until the mid '80s and Hornet replaced the F-4 in the Navy.

3rd major version.

Agreed you can just have 3 major 3d models and then play with them for the minor changes

[Raptor]

@Radium:

Am I not right?

I am afraid you are 100% right my friend…

[Dee-Jay]

There is already too many versions of the F-4 in present DB. This is just painful.

Do not add more (at least, not in the stock DB).

[I-Hawk]

@Manos1981:

I didnt say its bad model at all, its a descent model (90% for me as it really based in FF model with minor fixes) but still its something missing…

JFYI, the F-4 models in EMF are NO WAY from FF, FF maybe embraced them into the DB (actually the source to that integration was Tony which built the ITO2 theater which included those F-4 models for the IAF, and later he became FF DB manager and so he imported those same models to the stock FF DB).

The model was produced by a guy named Thorak maybe 10-11 years ago, as I know Thorak is out of the Falcon scene since long time ago, so the F-4 models are practically abandonware…

[Manos1981]

@Dee-Jay:

There is already too many versions of the F-4 in present DB. This is just painful.

Do not add more (at least, not in the stock DB).

Yeap indeed but poorly modeled

@I-Hawk:

JFYI, the F-4 models in EMF are NO WAY from FF, FF maybe embraced them into the DB (actually the source to that integration was Tony which built the ITO2 theater which included those F-4 models for the IAF, and later he became FF DB manager and so he imported those same models to the stock FF DB).

The model was produced by a guy named Thorak maybe 10-11 years ago, as I know Thorak is out of the Falcon scene since long time ago, so the F-4 models are practically abandonware…

My mistake then, Sorry

[spooky]

The F-4 3D models in EMF are more tha decent

[SEAD]

Hi Guys,

I haven’t played the EMF theater yet. Do the EMF phantoms have animated gear?

[spooky]

Of course they do