PHANTOM PHOR EVER LODS :)
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In reviewing the overall memory size (excluding poly counts):
The texture count:
- Jan Has did a better job of cutting down the quantity of the textures - a full set for his model only has 6 textures; but the size and quantity is as follows: 1 2048x2048 and 5 1024x1024 versus 9 textures (4 512x512 and 5 1024x1024 )on the FF Phantom. In terms of memory size JanHas carries the equivalent of 9 1024 textures versus 6 1024 textures for the FF model.
Model Size:
- Jan Has has a model that is about 9 times the size of the FF model with 4.5MB vs 512KB. In other words you can load nearly the entire set of FF Phantoms for less than the equivalent two model by JanHas.
I am not sure if these are important considerations but the FF model was pretty heavily tested to have a low impact on frame rates. The model was surprisingly slim after WaveDave’s Node Fuser was run on it.
Assuming that the FF models can be fixed by dedicated modelers - all the necessary data, hardpoints, weapons, skins, everything for 14 variants is pretty much ready to go. The beauty of this model is that besides a few minor differences - if you have one model done it can be applied across them all since the real differences are on the nose and tail and a few bumps and antenna. So, whether you choose one or the other or both, the work really only needs to be applied to one model to fix the basic issues or add variant differences and you are pretty much done.
Another approach could be to adopt both sets of models - C, D, DSK from Jan Has integrate separately and add everything else from the FF6 database that is desired, so you get the best of both and open the door to perhaps sequentially replace the old FF6 models as desired.
I rather wish to see in core DB the FF models because they already have lots of skins and they are enough detailed. To me is not neccessary a 50k poly 3D model, and because of shadows and other effects it is not so useful to work with such highpoly 3D models.
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I will agree with molni (therefore janhas models are beauties) The FF models needs some retouches only… to be closer to the real thing other than that they are ok. minir changes actually… working on the original f4e from FF i saw than the horizontal fins back arent 100% identical… the nose isnt 100% correct size as the canopy as well. Theese are the minor changes. Other changea i wanna see or try to fix maybe is the outter slats (S-F-E-I) forgive me if i forget a variant. And moving exaust cones of course.
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And of course modeling the AIM-9 stations independently from inner wing HP to make possible all time to carry AIM-9s.
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Molni that would be awesome also… it tried to do that but i didnt succeed…
I gues if i try harder i will and if i learn the secrets of lodeditorΣτάλθηκε από το SM-J500F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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Also to that matter i Janhas rails for aim 9 is awesome. All i need to figure out is the slot of the actual rails how it will be attached to the inner wing hp cause when i tried i had 2 double rails in each hardpoint. Lol… i will say again im not a 3d modeler im doing trial and error…
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Molni that would be awesome also… it tried to do that but i didnt succeed…
I gues if i try harder i will and if i learn the secrets of lodeditorΣτάλθηκε από το SM-J500F μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
As I can remember the LODs what you gave to me my Korea '80s mod had these HP tweaks.
At the first cut, F-4F with 2xAIM-9s and under Mk-84.
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I mean to have 1 lod for the rails that its not “fixed” on the plane but its visible only when u use the aim 9 s but many airforces actually never moved them so its kind of ok i guess.
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This thread was a nice read . . . so how many the new F-4s have actually been integrated to DB’s?
I can give some back info for clarity. I believe the original F-4 LOD came by way of Thoarek. He developed the model, gave it to me as a parting gift, and I then adapted with both CCC’s and WaveyDaves help. The original model had quite a few issues - and I have long since lost my work list of issues that were systematically removed. I do recall the issue with the hardpoints, landing gear, and so forth. Many additional tweaks were done after the model was adopted into RV/FF DXMs. Once that occurred, I believe WaveyDave reset the entire model since the centerline was slightly off when he viewed the model in 3DS or whatever program he used to tweak it. Also, there are still considerable autoshade issues that existed with the LOD model and those were for the most part corrected using DXedit. Another point was I found quite a few parts of the wing were not flush with the main wing - specifically the slats, airbrakes, underside wheel covers - - in short the model was still kind of rough when it was adopted and I periodically went back and clean a few things up everytime I revisited the set. I couldn’t see a lot of that stuff in LOD editor because it was a bit clunky for model work where as DXedit was used on an Apple 30" monitor and I was able to see a lot of detail and fix things. Unfortunately, the very best version of all the Phantoms and all my other model work was in FF6. The list of fixes is simply too numerous to mention and I am unsure if those DXM models can be reversed back to 3ds and then back to LOD. If so, I have detailed files of all the DXMs from the four theater DBs in FF6; Korea, ITO2, Taiwan, Aegean, not to mention the Falklands which was never formally released but was rather far along.
I would also encourage the use of a single skin. I integrated nearly all ITO2 models with multiple skin sets using old code that used squadron numbers matched to the skin sets. For FF I think that worked pretty well but I am not sure about how BMS codes handles multiple skin sets now. That might be why there were some issues with Phantoms with more than one skin set. The easier thing to do is to swap out skin sets - manually if you want to enjoy different paint schemes. Also, to be honest, we found AI in FF6 still didn’t seem to handle the skin sets properly, so despite setting the skin sets, ATO would generate a/c at places that I didn’t expect - and seemed more random than predictable. I didn’t really bother to investigate that.
I also noticed one particular variant is still missing - the RF-4 . . . I think that is a model that I couldn’t locate an LOD for - I can’t recall now if CCC or WaveyDave or someone made me a nose piece and I somehow added it to the F4B or C or something like that using DXedit.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/ranger822/RF-4ETuAF.jpg
Another point to note is that I do have the PSD’s for the Phantom skins if anyone is interested in making new skins … that area really big files but - make skinning a snap.
I wasn’t clear if JanHaas has his own F4 Phantom model - if it is better by all means press forward and upgrade! However, a model set like the Phantoms represent quite a body of work and adopting a new model should be given careful thought because it involves a lot of time and effort and whatever is choosen for upgrade really needs to demonstrate a significant improvement to warrant the effort. The other thing to think about is how much resolution and refinement does one really require in Falcon - many models when viewed from more than a few hundred yards are not that easy to tell from much older primitive models. My approach was to first think of Falcon as using a primary model - it all began with the F-16. That is really where the strength and effort for the game is and should be. However, for folks like myself, I like the idea of having some other choices even if they are more primitive (which from an integration standpoint might prove easier) - The F-4 Phantom in the late 60’s and 70s, for the US, was much like the F-16 was for the 80’s to present. Depending on the theater, a primary model is the model that takes center stage for a campaign. For ITO2 - 6 Days War it was clearly the Mirage IIIC, for Falklands it was the Harrier for Britain and the Mirage for Argentina. So, picking a primary model to develop is no simple or easy task. But, if you dedicate a team effort towards doing that you can develop some pretty unique experiences for the flyers. In fact, that is a good approach for anyone considering theater work.
You can find this Rf-4 in EMF theater if there is around a download mirror
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I mean to have 1 lod for the rails that its not “fixed” on the plane but its visible only when u use the aim 9 s but many airforces actually never moved them so its kind of ok i guess.
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Huh, I do not understand this post. In my MOD all F-4s has separated AIM-9 stations as should be.
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I am sure JanHas is willing to give away his F-4 model, so some other 3d guru can model all the necessary models…
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I have it already and will take a look.
I am sure JanHas is willing to give away his F-4 model, so some other 3d guru can model all the necessary models…
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Small update current models listed for download as it seems they work fine for the U1 version as well… The procedure is the same. But under sircumstances we all know that if you change the .dat files in sim folder isnt multiplayer friendly…
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I moved the E/F version to another thread cause its a completely different model : https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?28375-F-4E-F-Phantom&p=397291#post397291
Therefore this thread is not dead as it seems now that Tony “Ranger822” is here and we have some ideas how to get this going. -
There are several possible variants - the E/F are identical with regards to the Thoarek LOD model - the only difference are the skins. In fact, the all the E subvariants are the same model with only minor additions of antenna or probes, dispensers. The other major variants are shortnosed B/C/D/J/N group and then the British variant K/M which have the RollsRoyce engines. One way to crack this egg is to develop two main variants; E and B - then use them to expand to the other variants.
Using existing Thoarek based variants - it is just a matter of fixing the DXM–>LOD glitches, these do take some time. The overall goal is to do the F-4E for practice and familiarization of what has to be done and then develop a punch list for the other models. Since most of the glitches are common to all variants, once you have the list for one you have a list for all - still takes a little while but is definitely easier than trying to make a new model from scratch. The main advantage in time savings is that all the data and skins are done - just need a decent model that works.
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Put this in falcon bms 3.33, latest version: no pilot skin: ???