TrackIR vs Saitek Profiler hotkey fighting: definitive solution?

[Scuby]

Hello all!

Who has the same problem and who can help me solve this definitively?

Problem:
I use the hotkey CTRL+F7 in my Saitek Profiler (X52 Pro) to CENTER my TrackIR. This works fine, but never directly after starting the TIR software, i.e.: always after starting the TIR software I have to click 1 time on the TIR taskbar icon. After clicking, both Saitek Profiler and TrackIR work fine with the CTRL+F7 hotkey.

What happens if I don’t click on the TIR taskbar icon, it appears that the Saitek Profiler is only sending the CTRL key and not the F7 key. If I do click the TIR taskbar icon one time, then the CTRL+F7 keys are send fine!?

Did somebody discover how to solve this without removing the prefix (CTRL in my case) in the hotkey? I don’t have any unique keys left. Ofcourse I have already tried changing to different hotkeys or if it could be HOTAS buttons, but both do not solve the fighting after software start.

I use Windows 8.1 x64.

Thanks!!!

Scuby

[Eagle-Eye]

I’m just thinking out loud and it’s been a while since I last used the Saitek profiler, but if I remember correctly:

• there’s a profile tester. Have you checked what happens exactly when you press the button? As in, do CTRL + F7 actually get sent simultaneously, or are they separated? E.g. when you click = CTRL, when you keep it held = nothing, when you release = F7 and release F7 + CTRL.

Building on the above, I think you should be able select to something along the lines of “perform action when button is released”. Maybe some fiddling with that could work?

[Scuby]

@Eagle-Eye:

I’m just thinking out loud and it’s been a while since I last used the Saitek profiler, but if I remember correctly:

• there’s a profile tester. Have you checked what happens exactly when you press the button? As in, do CTRL + F7 actually get sent simultaneously, or are they separated? E.g. when you click = CTRL, when you keep it held = nothing, when you release = F7 and release F7 + CTRL.

Building on the above, I think you should be able select to something along the lines of “perform action when button is released”. Maybe some fiddling with that could work?

Thanks Eagle-eye,

When both software are active:

A single button press results in “CTRL”, a button press and hold results in “CTRL” and then repeats “F7, F7, F7, F7, F….” etc.

But, after I have clicked 1 time on the taskbar icon for TIR, a button press results in “CTRL+F7”, and also repeats.

All other buttons/keys for BMS work fine, so the problem is only with my TrackIR key bind.

So it seems that the second button (in this case F7) is being blocked/absorbed, until I explicitly click on the taskbar icon.

Any insights?

[Eagle-Eye]

Working with(out) macro’s?

This guy seems to have had a similar issue of shifted callbacks not being recognized, but apparently fixed it with macro’s.

[Scuby]

Tnx

Yes I know, and also tried using a direct key, only it does not solve the true issue and was kind of hoping to.

Having to click the taskbar icon feels like a re-loading action of some sorts. There must be some strange interaction between saitek, trackir and windows at startup.

[Eagle-Eye]

What happens when you use a different modifier, such as ALT or SHIFT? And is there absolutely no single key free anymore? Some examples that are easily overlooked: scroll lock, tab, caps lock, <> (ingame often seen as OEM102, I believe), the key above TAB (not sure what it’s called) and last but not least, the apps key. (Left/Right Windows key would be another possibility, but takes you out of BMS, unfortunately)

If you suspect some problem inside windows itself, you can try delaying the process start of either TIR or Saitek and see if that works?

[Scuby]

Thanks Eagle-Eye.

Still no definitive solution.

What is clear though, that TrackIR centering will work fine right away if you setup just one single key for the center function, like “F12” or “C”, thus without any modifier such as “ALT”.

Now if you do use a modifier+key for the TrackIR center function, like “ALT+F12”, and you keep the TrackIR window active, it becomes clear that Saitek Profiler is outputting only part of the emulated key presses coming from the flightstick. The resulting output from the flightstick is now just “ALT”, instead of “ALT+F12”.

In order to fix this, the user just needs to make the TrackIR window non-active, by clicking somewhere on an empty space on the Windows taskbar. This puts the TrackIR window to the background and abracadabra: the resulting output from the flightstick is now “ALT+F12”. The TrackIR centers fine.

So until someone has an interesting solution to this, I’ll have to keep “clicking on the Windows taskbar” as part of my FalconBMS startup procedure!

Thinking of that now, is there a way to start a program (TrackIR) directly into a non-active window state? Much like as start minimized? Maybe something like that will do the trick…

Cheers,
Scub

[kevinsue]

You don’t have to apply any keyboard keys to the Track IR functions. Just select the Profiles tab, select the Action, eg “Pause” then click once on the Key window and a dialogue box will pop up requesting to press any key or button. Just press any button on your joystick and that becomes the hotkey for that action. I have centre and pause mapped to the up and down on H3 and zoom in and out on the fwd and aft on H3 of my X-55 Rhino so all the required view buttons are on one hat switch. After this, the default F7, F9 and F12 keys are no longer part of the equation. The program will use any key or button that you press after that dialogue box is open including your mouse key if you don’t select something before trying to click out of it.

[Agave_Blue]

Scuby, not sure if it will help, but I put my Center TIR and Restart TIR on a HOTAS button as DX commands.

Have not had the issue you described (or at least not noticed it).

[Scuby]

Thanks for helping guys! Unfortunately the DX commands are not going to work in my case, because I want to keep TrackIR Center assigned on a shifted button, i.e. TrackIR is always going to pickup my pinky button presses first and not the other intended button.

If there is no other way, than I either have to keep clicking the taskbar once, or free a dedicated (unshifted) key in the keyfile (while the problem still exist).

Cheers!

[Agave_Blue]

Scuby, not to beat a dead horse, but with regard to DX command to recenter or reload TIR, are you talking about the in-game commands? I haven’t found that shifted/unshifted matters. I don’t use the TIR/Natural Point hot keys at all in game.

RecenterTrackIR 2 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 (in the unshifted layer)

ReloadTrackIR 258 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 (in the shifted layer)

(obviously your DX button numbers will be different)

[Scuby]

Thanks, so how does this work? Do I need to manually input the correct numbers for my pinky and button in the keyfile? How do I discover the numbers for those?

[Agave_Blue]

@Scuby:

Thanks, so how does this work? Do I need to manually input the correct numbers for my pinky and button in the keyfile? How do I discover the numbers for those?

I just downloaded and looked at your profile. It looks like DX isn’t used. Adding a DX shift might be complicated (within the confines of your current keyfile). However, if you just want to add the DX command for Recenter TIR, that is very easy. Just tell me what HOTAS button/switch you want to use and I’ll show you how to add the Recenter command.

Edit:

Scuby, the more I think about it, and looking at your profile, I think I’m wrong. It won’t be easy to add that one command. You would lose functionality on whichever button you assign. You’d have to give up the Saitek shift state on the button/switch. In other words, the button/switch would have one function (Recenter TIR), where now it has two (shift and mode 1).

[Agave_Blue]

Scuby, just noticed something else. Maybe it’s intentional due to the issue you’re asking about?

In your *.pr0 file, you have TIR Recenter as ALT-F7:

However in your BMS keyfile, you have ‘No Key Assigned’:

RecenterTrackIR -1 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “Recenter TrackIR”

Therefore TIR Recenter can’t function on that button/switch. Is that intentional? Did you disable it?

[Eagle-Eye]

@Agave_Blue:

In your *.pr0 file, you have TIR Recenter as ALT-F7:

However in your BMS keyfile, you have ‘No Key Assigned’:

Therefore TIR Recenter can’t function on that button/switch. Is that intentional? Did you disable it?

You don’t need to have the command set through BMS, as long as it is in his TIR software.

I would actually assume that all BMS does, is forward the key to TrackIR? Has anyone ever tested what happens if you set up the “Recenter TrackIR” as X in the TIR Software, but as Y in BMS, and then you press Y in-game? Will it actually recenter that way?

[Agave_Blue]

@Eagle-Eye:

You don’t need to have the command set through BMS, as long as it is in his TIR software.

Yet, he as the ‘Reload TIR’ with a key assigned in BMS:

ReloadTrackIR -1 0 0X4E 7 0 0 1 “Reload TrackIR”

And maybe that’s the issue he’s seeing where the recenter doesn’t work until he clicks TIR in the taskbar. I.e., the profiler key emulator can’t ‘access’ TIR until it’s active. Whereas using the BMS callback would access TIR itself, without the user having to click the taskbar icon.

??? :dunno:

(Why people jigger programs around to get this keypress and that keypress to work through an emulator rather than have BMS perform the callback directly befuddles me. Just sayin’.)

[Scuby]

Thanks guys for helping me, I appreciate it. Let me clarify one thing, the problem i’m refering to exists in Windows, with only Saitek Profiler and TrackIR.

The BMS keyfile entry for TrackIR, i’m not using that.

Saitek is supposed to output ALT+F7, but instead it outputs only ALT. Only when I put TrackIR to background, then Saitek does output ALT+F7.

So to me the problem appears to be somewhere between key emulation and the ability for the software to co-exist.

[Agave_Blue]

Another thought …. 2 actually:

Have you checked this setting:

Also, what if you DID enable the TIR Recenter in BMS? That is make the ALT-F7 the TIR Recenter command in your BMS Keyfile? Like your TIR Reload command.

[Scuby]

Thanks mate.

What does the trap do? I’ll check it soon!

Regarding the other suggestion, if I don’t do anything, than the BMS keyfile will only receive “ALT”, so there will be no center command given to the TIR.

This tiny problem is interesting isn’t it! Seems so simple to fix, but how… lol

[SLangner]

My simple (non-advanced) way of centering my TrackIR was to set F12 within the TrackIR software to center it, assigning that key to my active keyfile within the sim’s SETUP/CONTROLLERS page (SIM: TrackIR Recenter (Additional) in Section 6.06 SIMULATION & HARDWARE), then programming a button on my X-65F TQS (in my case via DirectX).