A - A Refueling..?

[mastersetter]

Hi all, just thought i would fire up the TE, and try it. Dam, it’s hard! I am struggling to maintain position with the tanker, what sort of advice is there regarding dead zones on the controls? Im Using X-55 hotas. Tried it will small and medium on the flight stick axis, no real luck yet. Need more practice too yes

[delenda]

Took me a long time to get tanking down. I personally find it much easier to get rid of all dead zones.

Best advice is to keep practicing - an overshoot doesn’t mean end of TE, resist temptation to shoot down the tanker, throttle back (adjust for drop) and try again

Fly off of the tanker too. Boom tunnel syndrome makes you go everywhere!

[Dracfalcon]

@mastersetters - I also own the X-55 and agree with delenda about the deadzones. It is a matter of practice…practice…practice and never giving up. Have you got to the point where the tanker clears you for contact?

[hoover]

Are you using head tracking? I found AAR easier at first with a “stable view” and head tracking switched off, say the “2” HUD only view.

Make sure to relax and wiggle your toes from time to time as the real guys do it

While I’ve managed to top off a good few times, there are days & circumstances when I’m simply unable to make the connection or even stay in the proper place.

Cheers, Uwe

[delenda]

Just remembered an old thread that had loads of good tips: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21368

[Mower]

Check out my videos, they may help, took me a while to master as well (it aint easy)…

FBMS Tanker 1 Mower – 04:24
— Mower

BMS nite AAR – 04:17
— Mower

[Dee-Jay]

@mastersetter:

what sort of advice is there regarding dead zones on the controls?

It is recommended to have no dead-zone on controller. https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?167-Flight-Model-(FM)-Developer-s-Notes-Part-7

[mastersetter]

Great stuff, thanks boys. Will check those links. I think one issue i have is concentrating so hard on the tanker position, then forgetting the throttle control, before i know it hes pulling away again, or im over shooting. Will adjust the dead zones and as i use head tracking, try the fixed hud view.

Thanks again

[Mav-jp]

Dead zone is already build in the FLCS so you should have ZERO dead zone on your stick…unless of course your stick is an old piece of junk…but then it is probably better to get a new one

[Mower]

@Mav-jp:

Dead zone is already build in the FLCS

Just to clarify: Mav means the dead zone is active in the FLCS when the a/r door is open, also when the landing gear is down BTW.

[Frederf]

Interesting, there is a dead zone in landing gains?

Are there any charts which show the force stick input to command output under various conditions?

[Blu3wolf]

Iirc, there is a couple in the FM articles.

[Menessis]

I come in from a low position and scoot right up to the tanker in a climb as I pull back on the throttle. The climb slows you down without loosing altitude. Coast right into position.

Menessis

[Mower]

@Menessis:

I come in from a low position and scoot right up to the tanker in a climb as I pull back on the throttle. The climb slows you down without loosing altitude. Coast right into position.

Menessis

Cool…now show us a video of it, sir…

[Mav-jp]

@Mower:

Just to clarify: Mav means the dead zone is active in the FLCS when the a/r door is open, also when the landing gear is down BTW.

no, stick curve is strictly identical in every gains and they have a “dead” zone… see article.

however depending on the gains the response is different

[Malc]

@Mower:

Check out my videos, they may help, took me a while to master as well (it aint easy)…

Mower, nice flying Sir, but the PYT Boom Operator requests you stop frying her eggs!

Do you find it easier to hook to one rather than the other types? KC-10 or KC-135?

[I-Hawk]

@mastersetter:

Hi all, just thought i would fire up the TE, and try it. Dam, it’s hard! I am struggling to maintain position with the tanker, what sort of advice is there regarding dead zones on the controls? Im Using X-55 hotas. Tried it will small and medium on the flight stick axis, no real luck yet. Need more practice too yes

Hi,

I learned myself to refuel smoothly just ~2 years ago (and I’m Flying Falcon for ~12-13 years now…), so here are the 4 best advices I got when I faced the same:
1. Don’t try to manage yourself by the HUD numbers (i.e speed, altitude), it doesn’t work!

2. Related to 1, don’t try to “refuel” but think of AAR as a close formation flying with the tanker, so what you really need is to learn to fly formation, the refueling operation is an outcome of that.

3. When you get close, try to be REALLY gentle, especially with the throttle, don’t forget throttle changes are “delayed” (you move the throttle but you see the outcome after a couple of seconds) so you must have that in mind when adjusting throttle position, especially when you are close enough.

4. Practice practice practice! Obvious but true… when you are done you will find you can refuel even while inverted

[hoover]

Another thing that helped me at first when getting to grips with AAR (sort of) was see-sawing on the cougar throttle more than seemed necessary. This way I was able to keep the engine at high revs most of the time where I’ve read it responds more rapidly. I was using a method similar to the following (without watching the HUD numbers, just making sure the tanker staid steady within the HUD or relative to my A/C):

• move throttle al the way up to a/b detent (before it goes “first click” on the cougar)

• leave it there for a couple of seconds

• move throttle all the way back to the idle detent switch (obviously before it goes “click”)

• leave it there for a second

• Rinse and repeat as necessary

These days I’m sometimes able to refuel successfully without the “throttle see-saw” method, but when I haven’t done it in a long while, I find this method gets me going again.

HTH,

Uwe

[mastersetter]

Some good tips here. Had another refueling session last light, tanker and wing man were killed at least 3 times before i gave up. I’m having trouble mainly getting the speed right, cant seem to keep my airspeed constant, always too quick, then too slow etc cant find control as yet. Will keep at it.

[Blu3wolf]

@mastersetter:

Some good tips here. Had another refueling session last light, tanker and wing man were killed at least 3 times before i gave up. I’m having trouble mainly getting the speed right, cant seem to keep my airspeed constant, always too quick, then too slow etc cant find control as yet. Will keep at it.

Well, try to arrive about a half mile behind the tanker doing 300 knots. Thats step one.

Once you have that down, add a bit of throttle up to about 320 knots. As you get closer, throttle back to where you were at 300 knots. Slide into position behind the tanker, and see about attaching the gun cross on the HUD to the end of the boom. Small corrections are key. You need to go left, then bank left to say 5 or 10 degrees, let the heading angle change by a degree or so and then correct back by banking the opposite direction for the same amount of time. To go backwards, if you overshoot, let your speed drop to 295. If you fall back, bring it up to 320 if you dont need to go more than a half mile ish.

To find that throttle spot, you might start by banging the throttle off both stops. Instead try to set it to an upper range, and see if that moves you forwards or backwards on the tanker. If it moves you forwards, move the throttle to a lower range and check again. Keep moving the throttle between the upper and lower range, narrowing the range until you find the sweet spot.