Second cue goes back up when bombing in CCRP (no bomb released)
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Hi all well i’ve had this happen on two sorties which has caused me to not bomb my targets and one was a AAA battalion which when having decided to try bombing it in CCIP instead after the bomb didnt release in CCRP got me shot down. I have just read on a tutorial by Krause that this is a bug that sometimes happens in the campaign, has anyone else experienced this? and if so will it be fixed in the next version? i’ve found this really annoying.
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It can be fixed. Primarily by insuring you are stable (speed, pitch, heading) on the steering cue and that you press the pickle when the countdown clock is at 0:02. Hold the pickle too long and the behaviour you describe is nearly certain to occur.
(Of course, proper weapon selected, target locked or on steerpoint, master arm on, etc.)
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It can be fixed. Primarily by insuring you are stable (speed, pitch, heading) on the steering cue and that you press the pickle when the countdown clock is at 0:02. Hold the pickle too long and the behaviour you describe is nearly certain to occur.
(Of course, proper weapon selected, target locked or on steerpoint, master arm on, etc.)
Ok so i just hold down pickle when time to target on my HUD is 2 seconds? not tap but hold it down till bomb releases?
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Yes.
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Yes.
Cheers bud. I’ve been holding down pickle pretty much as soon as i see the fall line once i’ve had my target locked with FCR, that must be it.
But you say i need to be stable also with speed pitch and heading. Of course i get pitch and heading with pitch needing to be roughly centred with horizon (fpm on or near horizon) and heading with fpm being on fall line but what about speed? is there a min/max speed i need to be at for the bomb to release?
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Hi,
I wouldn’t know about fixed speed limits. If your CCRP approach is reasonable precise, the bombs will come off if you dont pickle too early (as described above).
In the real life procedure you’re supposed to depress and hold the pickle until release. In the sim this doesnt work anymore if you pickle to early.
If you just depress it just before release, you should be fine.I already reported this bug on the FF forums years ago with regards to one of the redviper exes and earned lots of disbelief then. Finally other useres reported it as well.
I have no clue how it found it’s way into the bms.exe or if it technically even is the same bug.
However, the workaround described above did the trick for me.
Cheers!
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Hi,
I wouldn’t know about fixed speed limits. If your CCRP approach is reasonable precise, the bombs will come off if you dont pickle too early (as described above).
In the real life procedure you’re supposed to depress and hold the pickle until release. In the sim this doesnt work anymore if you pickle to early.
If you just depress it just before release, you should be fine.I already reported this bug on the FF forums years ago with regards to one of the redviper exes and earned lots of disbelief then. Finally other useres reported it as well.
I have no clue how it found it’s way into the bms.exe or if it technically even is the same bug.
However, the workaround described above did the trick for me.
Cheers!
That confirms it then so what Krause says in his tutorial is right with regards to pickle, but in that respect the sim has a bug. To be honest you’d think it wre more realistic to pickle at 2 seconds before release anyway.
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IRL pickling is ‘consent to release’. If you think you have a valid target, press and hold. You should be convinced you have a valid target well before 2 seconds to go.
Of course, if you discover something that makes you doubt even for a second that you are about to drop on a valid target, you release the pickle early. Its not a bad system, I think.
Its even normal procedure to keep the pickle held down during the safe escape maneuver, and to release it before switching FCC modes (forgetting that part has resulted in inadvertent AAM firings before).
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Cheers bud. I’ve been holding down pickle pretty much as soon as i see the fall line once i’ve had my target locked with FCR, that must be it.
But you say i need to be stable also with speed pitch and heading. Of course i get pitch and heading with pitch needing to be roughly centred with horizon (fpm on or near horizon) and heading with fpm being on fall line but what about speed? is there a min/max speed i need to be at for the bomb to release?
You’re right and that’s a fair question. I’m sure there are speed ranges for at least some bombs and/or profiles, but that wasn’t really what I meant. I was thinking simply that the FCR is trying to find a release solution. Being ‘stable’ and on the steering cue should facilitate that solution. But it may not be critical considering the FCR can find a solution when you’re in a loft or dive bomb profile.
In any case, pushing the pickle only 2 to 3 seconds before the release cue hits 0:00 is good practice in BMS. Whether it’s a ‘bug’ or a feature or how it works (or not) in RL, I don’t know (and for the most part don’t care). I do know holding the pickle too long in BMS is often the cause of bombs failing to release.
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You’re right and that’s a fair question. I’m sure there are speed ranges for at least some bombs and/or profiles, but that wasn’t really what I meant. I was thinking simply that the FCR is trying to find a release solution. Being ‘stable’ and on the steering cue should facilitate that solution. But it may not be critical considering the FCR can find a solution when you’re in a loft or dive bomb profile.
In any case, pushing the pickle only 2 to 3 seconds before the release cue hits 0:00 is good practice in BMS. Whether it’s a ‘bug’ or a feature or how it works (or not) in RL, I don’t know (and for the most part don’t care). I do know holding the pickle too long in BMS is often the cause of bombs failing to release.
In the last sortie i done managed to release all my bombs, only two failed to release on time as i held pickle down a bit too soon. I think to ensure the bomb(s) come off (and at the right time) i pickle now with 1 sec to release. On the occasion when the bomb didnt release on time i took finger off pickle and just tapped it and the bomb released, but missed the target. Still carried out what i wanted to do- destroyed all KS-19 guns of a AAA battalion.
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http://www.waywordradio.org/hit-the-pickle-button/ Discussion begins about 38:50.
As far as I know the real airplane simply checks the weapon release switch state for consent with odd behavior when holding it too long like in BMS. That said there’s little value in holding the pickle button that long before release. It’s a bad habit from a safety perspective like leaving master arm on flying over Washington D.C…
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That said there’s little value in holding the pickle button that long before release. It’s a bad habit from a safety perspective like leaving master arm on flying over Washington D.C…
That is very true. You wont see that in BMS, but you can imagine a ton of way for the CCRP computation to fail : radar noise or jamming messing up AGR returns, smoke or other object creating an earlier return on laser…. I have no idea how frequent this stuff can happen, but no need to take the risk anyway. Especially in a situation where friendlies or civilians are nearby.
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Not frequent enough to be worth altering the training procedure apparently.
Also CCRP doesnt use AGR, it uses GM/GMT. CCIP uses AGR.
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Also CCRP doesnt use AGR, it uses GM/GMT. CCIP uses AGR.
True…. however one might argue a “post designate” CCIP uses AGR and relies on the pickle button being held, although you dont really have a choice to press early here
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http://www.waywordradio.org/hit-the-pickle-button/ Discussion begins about 38:50.
As far as I know the real airplane simply checks the weapon release switch state for consent with odd behavior when holding it too long like in BMS. That said there’s little value in holding the pickle button that long before release. It’s a bad habit from a safety perspective like leaving master arm on flying over Washington D.C…
So that is to excuse the bug? C’mon… its just a bug. There is a workaround, so nothing critical. But it is a bad habit of quite some folks here to excuse plain and simple bugs with some real life behaviour the bugs may come close to.
… and you know that!
