AI wingmen don't do their assigned tasks..
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skyknight did you know that when pressing the wingman menu key on the keyboard twice and more often all the other wingman commands appear?
Hi,
YES! I’m not completely new to F4 use to play it waybaaaaaaaack! LoL
Just hard to get wingmen to do what you would like them to do, many comments here and in forum about this.
I just politely saying it would be nice to add some more commands.
I was actually even thinking adding “Voice Commands” with A.i integration many games now days have this feature.
But for short term just some extra commands as previously suggested and some others in forum mentioned by other members sound good also.
I.e > After “Weapons Free”, another command Release/Deploy Bombs on my Strike/Target it might be a TE I made flying thru an Air Base I decide to attack it wingmen cant deploy thou?
I am just thinking out loud not that I am unsatisfied, the sim is awesome, just sort of leaves you thinking what about if I could do this and that?!?!
Just sharing my creative juices ……LoL
Cheers bud,
:drink:
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I noticed that when i lock ot the radar a vehicle in a column an issue order 8 (attack collateral tgts) they fire no more than 2 Mavs, even if they’re carryng 8 or 10. It’s a pain in the ass to make them drop cluster bombs or other unguided ordnance, the only way is to give weapons free command, but forget about more complex tactics. Even ordering Rejoin, gain dinstance from target area, (15-30 miles) and then re-locking and re-ordering is unuseful. It makes the game experience boring after a wihile.
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I noticed that when i lock ot the radar a vehicle in a column an issue order 8 (attack collateral tgts) they fire no more than 2 Mavs, even if they’re carryng 8 or 10. It’s a pain in the ass to make them drop cluster bombs or other unguided ordnance, the only way is to give weapons free command, but forget about more complex tactics. Even ordering Rejoin, gain dinstance from target area, (15-30 miles) and then re-locking and re-ordering is unuseful. It makes the game experience boring after a wihile.
For realism, do not load so much bombs or AGM65. Use 4 max, it is enough. Usually, you are limited by fuel before being limited by weapons.
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For realism, do not load so much bombs or AGM65. Use 4 max, it is enough. Usually, you are limited by fuel before being limited by weapons.
It may be realistic but thet still need work, BOMB AI is broken.
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For realism,…
… at the BOMB AI should be seriously looked at.
They mostly attack target(s) only on their first run fine, on their 2nd run they often just overfly the target,
without a bombs drop.
If they are in “Bomb dump ass” mode, they fly mostly in full burner.Not nearly realistic, IMHO.
Cheers,
LS -
We will have to live with that. AFAIK, AI behavior revamp is not planned.
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We will have to live with that. AFAIK, AI behavior revamp is not planned.
And thats what i hate about these falcon dance club goups, theres allways something critical broken for every version of falcon. Broken AI ruins campaings etc… Why add new stuff, when there is old broken stuff still not fixed ?? Even my best Falcon Fanboy classes won’t filter off some of those idiotic things :wfish:
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And thats what i hate about these falcon dance club goups, theres allways something critical broken for every version of falcon. Broken AI ruins campaings etc… Why add new stuff, when there is old broken stuff still not fixed ?? Even my best Falcon Fanboy classes won’t filter off some of those idiotic things :wfish:
F4AF is working fine right? … so …
Personally … I have no major problem with AI since I do only one pass / target, and I never overload a/c with 10 bomb etc … so … not a real issue for me even if sometimes, yes, it can be a little bit hard to make them efficient, mainly during CAS mission. But since I’m used to use GBU12 and carry only 2 or 4 max … in most cases, they drop it on designed target.
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We will have to live with that.
Which would be so sad.
AFAIK, AI behavior revamp is not planned.
But it should be planned, because it’s broken and need to be fixeded, IMHO.
It’s in no way realistic that AI fly 15- 20 miles into enemy territory to turn for their 2nd, 3rd or 4th run,
and then just fly over the target area without dropping bombs, but seems to be happy to burn fuel using the afterburner.If you really try to direct your AI to bomb assigned targets you might be lucky or not.
All in all the whole attack takes to long and depending on the enemy defence situation you’ll lose
some of the AI wingies.Maybe the devs are not aware of the actually AI behavior and what we are talking about.
(no offense here, … I know some devs are not flying much (with the AI).Cheers,
LS -
theres allways something critical broken for every version of falcon.
Unfortunately, that will be the case as long as Falcon4 exist.
Why add new stuff, when there is old broken stuff still not fixed ??
Once again … we are doing what we can … not what we want. It is not because we can add nice avionic stuffs, or improve few things that we can fix all AI defaults … it is not the same area.
We are not original authors of the code… we don’t know everything about it.
It is why some things can not be fixed without a complete rewrite of a part of the code … that can takes months or even several years …
So again … priority … priority … and priority …
What do you prefer … UP2 with bomb fix etc … or wait 1, 2, 3 or more years with no release to see (maybe?, if work is successful) only the AI code rewrite … ?
Maybe a workaround, or a fix will be found while working on a different area … ? … It is always possible … but again, AFAIK, no specific work is planned for AI behavior at this time.
Maybe the devs are not aware of the actually AI behavior
They are.
You know … we are working on BMS and testing it for a long long time …
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Honestly I haven’t had much of a problem with AI in the ground attack role. At least during interdiction flights. I usually pack us up with 6 AGM-65 and when we’re arriving at the target area they usually request permission to engage on their own. With the target STPT selected I either tell them weapons free or I give them the attack targets command. Then they launch Mavericks usually two per pass until they’re out.
I did have a problem with mk84s last time out though. I was bombing a depot and my wingman wouldn’t drop. Gave him the attack targets command and he said he would and then he overflew the target and didn’t drop anything. Failed the mission because my second bomb missed due to winds and AI didn’t drop at all. So the depot was only damaged.
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Can someone confirm that AI fires 2 Mavs at the same targets?Usually their hit ratio is 50-70%…Also LGBs accuracy is horrible, and they always drop pairs, even if their target is truck…Other than that,and campaign, AI is fine.
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Can someone confirm that AI fires 2 Mavs at the same targets?Usually their hit ratio is 50-70%…Also LGBs accuracy is horrible, and they always drop pairs, even if their target is truck…Other than that,and campaign, AI is fine.
haven’t seen AI firing 2 mavericks per vehicle, not sure about their lgb drop logic tho.
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But it should be planned, because it’s broken and need to be fixeded, IMHO.
It’s in no way realistic that AI fly 15- 20 miles into enemy territory to turn for their 2nd, 3rd or 4th run,
and then just fly over the target area without dropping bombs, but seems to be happy to burn fuel using the afterburner.If you really try to direct your AI to bomb assigned targets you might be lucky or not.
All in all the whole attack takes to long and depending on the enemy defence situation you’ll lose
some of the AI wingies.Maybe the devs are not aware of the actually AI behavior and what we are talking about.
(no offense here, … I know some devs are not flying much (with the AI).Cheers,
LSDespite it´s age and (possible) shortcomings the AI still on top of the game and most likely the best of any modern airplane sim. So to quote one´s famous quote:
“You should not ask what the AI can do for you, but what YOU can do for the AI”
It is in no way realistic to make a second pass in a high threat environment, and most certainly you wouldn´t even think about a 3rd or 4th pass - unless of course there is nothing to worry about. Then, on the other hand, you are fine in taking your time and make your run in 15-20 miles …
So, what I think needs to be fixed is not the AI, but the way virtual pilots do their mission planning
Cheers
TC -
I did have a problem with mk84s last time out though. I was bombing a depot and my wingman wouldn’t drop. Gave him the attack targets command and he said he would and then he overflew the target and didn’t drop anything. Failed the mission because my second bomb missed due to winds and AI didn’t drop at all. So the depot was only damaged.
No problem here. Just made a quick mission and have my AI wingman take out a bridge with his 2 Mk-84 just fine. One pass, no flyin around or some other stuff that is reported here …
Cheers
TC -
Can someone confirm that AI fires 2 Mavs at the same targets?Usually their hit ratio is 50-70%…Also LGBs accuracy is horrible, and they always drop pairs, even if their target is truck…Other than that,and campaign, AI is fine.
Can´t confirm that. Then again, you have all the tools (Mission builder and ACMI) at hand to check that yourself. Just build a small mission and see how they do
Cheers
TC -
Example:
We’re a 4 ship flight in a training mission. The objective is to take out 2 bridges (4 objects) surrounded by various SAM & AAA.
When ordering the wingmen to take out SAMs & AAAs with HARMs they do as told without any problem.But when ordered to take out the bridge with dumb bombs they affirm the order but then just fly around. I locked up the bridge with the ground radar and ordered the to attack my target.
After a couple of minutes I issued a re-order. The element ran out of fuel and headed home. My wingman dropped bombs on one of the bridges after a looong while and multiple orders (and missed).Question:
I understand that the AI isn’t perfect but is there some kind of trick or hidden lore when issueing orders to AI wingmen. Something like… ordering them twice in a row, first issueing waepons free and then attack… or something similar.thanks
I would rather have 2 flight´s (one SEAD and one for the bridge), but that might be just me
Other than that my wingman just took out a bridge with Mk-84 without a problem, so I would say it´s not the AI …Cheers
TC -
@T-C:
So, what I think needs to be fixed is not the AI, but the way virtual pilots do their mission planning
As a single player, flying F4 since release 1998, you can trust me to know how to do mission planning,
or how to be a babysitter for the AI, etc.AI ground bombing was more or less fine from the very first release to OF 4.x, now in BMS it’s broken.
YOU are talking about some quick TE’s, NOW fly a complete campaign from day 1
and fly mostly any kind of bombing missions with your wingies,
THEN you’ll see how good and realistic the AI works.Hell, I’ve escorted a B-52 flight (in an addon Korea campaign) and even they just circled at the target area
without dropping a single bomb, but some of them got shoot down by enemy air defence.Yeah, sure it was not the originally Korea campaign, but I also flew originally Korea KTO
and had similar experience.Regarding ground bombing the AI = Absent Intelligence,
and I can nothing do for my wingie, except to not load them with bombs at all.
… or send him RTB right after takeoff
… or shoot his a… in piecesCheers,
LS -
Haven’t had any experience with other Falcons to refer too. But I have to agree with lazy when it comes to ground bombings. It’s like a frustrating game of Roulette trying to get wingmen/packages to drop their bombs. Sometimes they will, and other times (for no reason) they just circle above the target in full afterburn until bingo. I try issuing a rejoin command, and then waiting for them to get in formation, before taking them +6nm out and then reissuing “attack my target” - and other such tricksBut when they’re in “dumb mode” (which is 90% of the time on bombing runs) they simply refuse to play ball.
And yes (from my experience) they drop two bombs on a single pass - always.
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I usually don’t have a problem with the AI bombing ground targets. I DO have problems with them requesting to engage 100nm out, and then when I do get within 5nm of the target and tell them weapons free, they go off and try to engage fighters that are 60nm off. I would tell them to attack my target, but that puts in a predicament if there’s only one target–then I don’t get to blow anything up