Night Vision
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Quick question about night vision. I live in South Africa and we have crime here like you guys have F16s and first world economies! So I invested in night vision years ago and still use it for security. Now granted mine is a 2nd gen device which amplifies light on a phospherous membrane or some thing like that and it also has a infra red spot light for zero visibility conditions. Howver it takes some getting used to. I have found that using it on its own is often not very good - I normally use it to check out an area, then check again with high intensity flashlight and then sit in a dark corner with the NV again and check a final time if I am really serious about a possible intrusion on my property. Objects can be difficult to recognise and the focus is not very sharp. Also if you use the spotlight and you accidently view something close by you get a very bright return which can make it difficult to see.
Please be aware this is not a criticism of BMS NVG at all, I just have some curious questions. IRL how is a real F16s NV. I mean is it at all like in the game or is it more like what I described. Also the NVG are they light intensifiers or do they work in conjunction with a IR spotlight or is that only FLIR.
I presume the NVG setting for the cockpit interiour is to prevent the pilot blinding himself when he looks down at the instrument panel. Also NV ranges without IR spotlights are quite short, so NVG would only be useful for flying in formation at night etc.
Looking forward to hearing the truth
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from what i read around here the pilots look under the glasses to see stuff in the cockpit.
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from what i read around here the pilots look under the glasses to see stuff in the cockpit.
Yep.
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The NVGās we fly with are light intensifiers and do not have IR spotlights as you described. The clarity of the picture depends on how much ambient light there is coming from the ground or from the moon/stars. On a moonless night with an overcast, you donāt really see much on the ground unless there is a lot of cultural lighting in the area (i.e. a town/city). A clear night with a full moon will allow you to see a lot on the ground from higher altitudes.
With the NVGās on, any IR illumination can be seen so on dark nights IR flares can be dropped from aircraft or shot from Arty/Mortars in order to ālight upā the sky for NVG users. Also, some FLIRās have IR pointers to allow pilots/WSOās to āpointā at a target with the IR pointer and other aircraft (and guys on the ground) with NVGās can see where they are pointing. A sudden bright light, such as a missile launch or somebody putting out flares, will wash your goggles out for a couple secondsā¦basically blinding your NVGs until it can adjust for the bright light.
As for the cockpit interior- NVGās sit an inch or so from your eyes which allows you to look down to see your systems. Above the canopy rail (outside) = you look through your NVGās, below the canopy rail (inside) = you look underneath your NVGās. At least in the Hornet, you have to turn the HUD brightness pretty high up in order to read it through your NVGās. One of the reasons for NVG lighting is it allows for a lower light level in your cockpit so it doesnāt affect your actual eyes night-vision.
one thing to note is on a clear night with no moon, looking up at the stars with NVGs on = amazing view.
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Hi nice topic,
I was looking at some youtubes on the topic this guy discusses it quiet good I thinkā¦.
Also these
The only thing I see is more definition in the youtubes I was watching compared to BMS4.32 night vision
Cheers,
:drink:
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The NVGās we fly with are light intensifiers and do not have IR spotlights as you described. The clarity of the picture depends on how much ambient light there is coming from the ground or from the moon/stars.
100%
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Thanks for all the great replies. Thats what I figured, the FLIR is kind of an IR spotlight isnāt it? Also do have you guys read/heard anything about the difficulty in recognising objects with NVG or not really? I mean its firstly monochrome, depth perception is almost completely goneā¦ Its definitely tougher using it IRL than in a gameā¦
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Ahhh just saw the vids sky nigght! Exactly what I was talking about disorientation and depth perception is gone. Thats exactly what that pilot was talking aboutā¦ why they dont use it in landing for example!
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A follow-up to this thread. I took the pic using my cell phone between my face and my NVGs. The moon was overhead and 3/4 full so it was bright out. Picās taken in the mid-20kās and out over the water.
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Is it possible to code in future patch the visibility of whole TGP IR beam, between TGP and target, as it can be seen in real and DCS sim?? Not only the ground blinking IR spot. IR beam is heating up molecules of air all the way to the target, so it can be seen thru the NVG.
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Depends entirely on what NVG you are usingā¦ The IR pointer is a 850 nanometer wave, and rayleigh scattering is not great to start with. The combat laser at 1064 nanometers has a more visible beam under the right conditions, but you still want a relatively recent NVG to pick that up. The training laser at 1570 nanometers another story again. Old style NVGs will only pick up the IR spot, newer models will not see the IR beam at all but will see the combat laser spot and beam, and then new SWIR models will see the whole spectrum used.
As an aside? If you can see the beam from rayleigh scattering, you wont be able to make out the actual target. It will be too washed out. If your AGC kicks in so you can delineate the target, you wont see the beam. Catch-22.
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I Love the Hornet!
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Is it possible to code in future patch the visibility of whole TGP IR beam, between TGP and target, as it can be seen in real and DCS sim?? Not only the ground blinking IR spot. IR beam is heating up molecules of air all the way to the target, so it can be seen thru the NVG.
ā¦you probably shouldnāt be able to see the spot either - if you are using an IR marker, yes - and yes to the above. But if you are using the tactical laser, no and no.
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ā¦you probably shouldnāt be able to see the spot either - if you are using an IR marker, yes - and yes to the above. But if you are using the tactical laser, no and no.
A short wave infrared NVG set should be able to see the spot for all three pointers.
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A short wave infrared NVG set should be able to see the spot for all three pointers.
None of the NVGs Iāve ever worked with can see a laserā¦IR pointer/marker with a FLIR - yes; laser no - with NVGs or a FLIR. At least not a tactical laserā¦or more to the point, not a tactical laser in use at the time. Probably because none of the NVGs Iām familiar with are IR sensitive - Iām only familiar with aviator used ones. Ground troops may have different.
First time I ever did see an IR pointer/marker through NVGs was stunningā¦no wonder they call it the āfinger of deathā. Even a hand held one - pointed through a canopy.
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Unless you are using older generation NVGs, such as starlight technology which doesnāt exist in modern systems, ALL night vision optics can see IR. So not sure what you are talking about. Remember, IR laser is not a light saber. You are not going to see a beam. You only see a beam if there is some sort smoke, fog etc that refracts the IR particles, otherwise you will only see the SPOT as the IR laser is refracting off an object.
So not sure what your conditions were but I assure you your NVGs will see an IR spot/source/beam if those conditions exist.
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Unless you are using older generation NVGs, such as starlight technology which doesnāt exist in modern systems, ALL night vision optics can see IR. So not sure what you are talking about. Remember, IR laser is not a light saber. You are not going to see a beam. You only see a beam if there is some sort smoke, fog etc that refracts the IR particles, otherwise you will only see the SPOT as the IR laser is refracting off an object.
So not sure what your conditions were but I assure you your NVGs will see an IR spot/source/beam if those conditions exist.
Strictly speaking, smoke, fog and air are all things that will allow reflection of IR photons. Depends on sensitivity of your receiver I guess.
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Pretty sure ANVIS-9s donāt see IR, Iāll check thatā¦but Iām REAL sure they donāt.
BTW - after a look at the SNIPER pod brochure with twelve 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, Iām gonna need to re-think a bit on just what that things does, and HOW it does itā¦badass pod.
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Pretty sure ANVIS-9s donāt see IR, Iāll check thatā¦but Iām REAL sure they donāt.
BTW - after a look at the SNIPER pod brochure with twelve 8x10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, Iām gonna need to re-think a bit on just what that things does, and HOW it does itā¦badass pod.
They do. My company trains pilots and tactical LEO and Military the use of NODs. We have AVS9s and I promise you they see IR. We use IR pointers PEQs DBALS etc to shoot. They see the IR laser and illuminator. I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT.
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Strictly speaking, smoke, fog and air are all things that will allow reflection of IR photons. Depends on sensitivity of your receiver I guess.
Yes this is trueā¦ We use MILSPEC GENIII tubes like anyone else and it needs to be pretty smokey to actually see the laser. Generally youāll catch glimps of it but more so not. Remember from a tactical perspective you donāt want lasers coming from your person, weapon or jet for that matter. So they are not designed to look like lightsabers.