Feedback BMS-Training.pdf

[lazystone]

Oliver,

great manual stuff, congrats.

I found an error which will make newbies crazy …:D

BMS-Training.pdf, page 11, 1rst Sweep, 4.:

4. Moving forward to the backup UHF panel the left function knob should be rotated from OFF to BOTH and the right mode knob set to MNL or PRESET or GRD depending on briefing.

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MNL configure the backup UHF panel to use the MANUAL frequency you can now set with the 5 smaller knobs. In PRESET the radio is tuned to the selected channel (6 by default) and GRD sets the backup UHF to guard UHF (243.000). Please note that the F-16 only has a backup radio for UHF and not for VHF. The backup UHF radio only works when the CNI switch is in the BACKUP position. It is strongly advised to set the backup radio correctly as briefed such that your lead or any member of the flight is able to communicate if needed. Indeed before switching to CNI the backup UHF radio is your only means of communication. In this case, the tower frequency 292.3 might be entered in the manual frequency window by clicking the relevant knobs. Once set, tower communication with Kunsan tower will be available in Backup mode.

I can’t complete that, because there is no battery power yet.

Select the COM1 page of the UFC; it will display the following page: The DED tells you that the UHF is ON in Backup mode and 292.3 is selected in the MNL window and the active preset is channel 6.

I can’t complete that, because additionally the DED is not powered yet.

And a suggestion, if I may

Reading the “eye candy” test stuff is interresting to know,
but some may read and learn “line by line”, just to see at the end
that this part was not neccessary at all to start the jet.

IMHO clearly marking such parts in the manual would help newbies to
concentrate on the crucial parts.

Cheers,
LS

[Blu3wolf]

@lazystone:

Oliver,

great manual stuff, congrats. http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/goodjob.gif

I found an error which will make newbies crazy …:D

BMS-Training.pdf, page 11, 1rst Sweep, 4.:

Copy

I can’t complete that, because there is no battery power yet.

I can’t complete that, because additionally the DED is not powered yet.

And a suggestion, if I may

Reading the “eye candy” test stuff is interresting to know,
but some may read and learn “line by line”, just to see at the end
that this part was not neccessary at all to start the jet.

IMHO clearly marking such parts in the manual would help newbies to
concentrate on the crucial parts.

Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LS

Everything is important with a ramp start. The newbies should be learning the whole checklist, and applying it item by item. If you learn the real checklist, then changes to BMS’ modelling present no issue.

[lazystone]

@Blu3wolf:

Everything is important with a ramp start. The newbies should be learning the whole checklist, and applying it item by item. If you learn the real checklist, then changes to BMS’ modelling present no issue.

It looks like we have a differently idea about the term newbie.:D

IMHO in the trainigs manual a newbie should be rewarded as soon as possible,
to keep his motivation high.

Doing eye candy sys checks is shifting that “rewarding point” further away.

Later, … when he understood what he is doing, … and wants to go deeper,
then he can (re-) read the suitable parts of the manual at any time.

Cheers,
LS

[Blu3wolf]

You can certainly reread it. Relearning old habits is a bit more difficult, but I think Ive proved to myself at least that it can be done.

[Dee-Jay]

@lazystone:

Doing eye candy sys checks is shifting that “rewarding point” further away.

Call it eye candy if you want. But to avoid to have to re-re-re learn in the future … it is better to be accustomed to all checklist items right now. Because it can become “less candy eye” in the future.

And when speaking about candy eye … what are you thinking about exactly?

[lazystone]

@Dee-Jay:

Call it eye candy if you want. But to avoid to have to re-re-re learn in the future … it is better to be accustomed to all checklist items right now. Because it can become “less candy eye” in the future.

And when speaking about candy eye … what are you thinking about exactly?

Eye candy are the words, directly from the trainings manual.
… for example …
BMS-Training.pdf, page 12, 2nd Sweep, 1.:

1. On the ELEC panel move the MAIN PWR switch out of OFF to BATT (battery). The ELEC SYS (caution panel), MAIN GEN, STBY GEN, and FLCS RLY (ELEC panel) lights come on. The aircraft battery needs to be tested. The FLCS PWR TEST switch on the TEST panel (rearmost panel on the left console) is moved from NORM to TEST and held.
While the TEST switch is held the FLCS PMG and the ACFT BATT TO FLCS lights illuminate and the FLCS RLY light goes out. On the TEST panel the four FLCS PWR lights (ADBC) come on indicating a good power output to the FLCC. You can now release the FLCS PWR TEST switch. The lights reset to their initial state. This check is eye candy and is not mandatory. The MAIN PWR switch can then be moved to MAIN PWR. The lights do not change. Please note one of the common mistakes is to start the jet in BATT which prevents the systems from coming online later as the main generator is not online.

Now, all I suggest is to mark the eye candy stuff which is not mandatory,
to reward the newbie ASAP.:D

Cheers,
LS

[Blu3wolf]

I also note that it appears impossible to get a loft release using the instructions in the training manual - specifically waiting till the PUAC, then pulling 4G within 2 seconds until a solution is reached.

I am very glad to see that a held pickle is now recognized properly!

[lazystone]

@Blu3wolf:

You can certainly reread it. Relearning old habits is a bit more difficult, but I think Ive proved to myself at least that it can be done.

In this sim we can learn something new every time we run it,
and we re- learn again with every new release.
… that’s why we are in the training section.

Cheers,
LS

[-Wizard-]

@lazystone:

It looks like we have a differently idea about the term newbie.:D

IMHO in the trainigs manual a newbie should be rewarded as soon as possible,
to keep his motivation high.

Doing eye candy sys checks is shifting that “rewarding point” further away.

Later, … when he understood what he is doing, … and wants to go deeper,
then he can (re-) read the suitable parts of the manual at any time.

Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LS

Principles of learning indicate that what one learns first, is what one learns and remembers best.

Thus you should be teaching people the proper method of doing something the FIRST time, not teaching them shortcuts and then expecting them to go back and fill-in the holes you left them with.

[Dee-Jay]

Oky I see lazy. But I confirm that it is better to learn the right procedure from be begening… What is candy eye now could be no longer one day.

Cheers!

[lazystone]

OK, Ok, I see I might be wrong.

I have just tried to see it from a total newbie’s point of view,
while I have to relearn with 4.33, like most of us.
(even “Mower” is reading the manuals )
… and there I thought marking (not removing) that stuff could be a good idea.

Anyway, more important is the top part of 1rst post,
where a newbie can’t follow those steps.

Cheers,
LS

[Red Dog]

Hey Ls

I found an error which will make newbies crazy …

First it is not an error, it’s by design
second in aviation we use to prepare as many things as possible before specific moments (like putting all power on or starting the engine)
the philosophy of the ramp start explained in both the dash1 and the training manual is like that as well:

I can’t complete that, because there is no battery power yet.

indeed you can’t. But the beauty of doing it before actually turning battery power on is that whenever you power the battery all the stuff will be readily useable and you’ll directly be able to communicate with the bup radio.
It’s the same about the lights. Settings light won’t work at this stage. but you are placing switches now and the system will run per SOP as soon as power will be applied in the next stage. It’s the logical continuation of the preflight and cockpit checks.
Once again, it is not wrong, it is a method which is consistent with real life and the BMS checklists. We chose to do so on purpose. Again, there are other ways to do it but as said in the other post about manual mistakes, it’s not because it doesn’t correspond to your own way of doing it that it is wrong. The explained method do works perfectly fine and as such as a right as any other method other users may use.

Furthermore, that is the purpose of the 1st sweep as written in the beginning of page 11:

Looking towards the back of the left console, we start by setting the systems correctly so they begin working from the moment that power is received from the battery.

As for the confusion for newbees, i disagree we have been teaching this method in our squad for years without any issues.

I can’t complete that, because additionally the DED is not powered yet.

Once again, you can’t but you will be as soon as power is applied.
The idea here was to emphasize a hardly known facts that the BUP channels frequency can be easily checked in the cockpit with this method.
and that both channels and manual frequency tuning is available from the DED when backup is selected. I’m pretty sure lots of ppl don’t know that.

Reading the “eye candy” test stuff is interresting to know,
but some may read and learn “line by line”, just to see at the end
that this part was not neccessary at all to start the jet.

IMHO clearly marking such parts in the manual would help newbies to
concentrate on the crucial parts.

This again is a matter of philosophy and that philosophy reflects our own methods, which i dare say are proven
it’s always the eternal debate but i personnally believe that’s it’s the user’s choice in the end to see what’s necessary and what is not. that comes with experience. the documents give enough cues about what is and what is not eyecandy. But i can’t discard the eyecandy stuff because then other ppl would report the docs incomplete

Furthermore again, there are different level of eyecandy. there are useless eyecandy and eyecandy that may become active in the future (remember we already are working on the next thing, so we plan ahead as well) in the end we decided to document everything to avoid teaching bad habits.

Writing docs and remaining consistent in the process is not easy and requires compromises as well. Our best way to do that is to stick to proven methods.
We don’t follow manuals, we wrote manuals according to our own procedures

You readers will have to accept our way of doing so and if at some point you users became experienced enough to apply a new custom methodology that works better for you, then we succeeded in our tasks.
We showed you the way and then you adapted to your own philosophy.

[lazystone]

Oliver, … Thank’s for long post.

Let me clarify something first…
I have personally no problems with the manuals at all.
so regarding the actually eye candy which may become active in the future,
… keep it coming.

About the term “newbie”, …
again, there seems to exist a differently idea about it.

I understand and agree that joining a squad and learn the sim there
is the most effective learning methode, but to my understanding he
isn’t that “green” anymore. He already has at least done a few flights in SP.
(Training, IA, …) and I guess really “green” newbies rarely join a squad.

I’m talking about those really green newbies, whereat FBMS is their very first sim ever,
maybe english is not their favorite language, and maybe even without having a clue
about a F-16 jet at all, except that this thing is able to fly and fight.

They might have a hard time to follow the manuals, and might give up
before they “got it”.
Yeah, maybe those who don’t get it are better going to play another game,
on the other hand those could also become good pilots if they will
get a little less confused.

But like you’ve said “You readers will have to accept our way of doing so”
… and I’ve personally not problems with that.

@Red:

it’s always the eternal debate but i personnally believe that’s it’s the user’s choice in the end to see what’s necessary and what is not. that comes with experience. the documents give enough cues about what is and what is not eyecandy. But i can’t discard the eyecandy stuff because then other ppl would report the docs incomplete

Shouldn’t it be also the user’s choice to learn eyecandy stuff which is not mandatory (yet)?

Yeah, “Blu” and “Wiz” told me already it’s better to learn the full stuff,
but here I think about that green newbie again.

And to avoid misunderstood, … I’ve never suggested to discard the eyecandy stuff.
I’ve suggested to mark them, so an already “learn- stressed” newbie could skip the
eye candy stuff for now and get’s his reward ASAP, … a rampstarted jet.

Maybe even moving the note about eye candy on top of the section (not below like actually)
could help a little.

Now I have some manuals to read …

Cheers,
LS

[sjuswede]

I must admit that now I am confused. What is it you find confusing about the manual, lazy?

Jesper

[Toto]

When I was new, after I read the manual, I simply referred to the checklist and highlighted the mandatory items with a highlighter. I think it is personal preference as to how far a person is going to simulate a ramp start. I usually just do the mandatory things and will learn the other things as they become mandatory. Of course, I’m lazy like that :).

The point is the manual clearly points out to the reader what is NOT mandatory so I think that is good enough.

[lazystone]

@sjuswede:

What is it you find confusing about the manual, lazy?
Jesper

Me, personally, … nothing.
Manuals are fine for me !

@Toto:

I think it is personal preference as to how far a person is going to simulate a ramp start. I usually just do the mandatory things and will learn the other things as they become mandatory. Of course, I’m lazy like that :).

+1 here, … and you know I’m lazy.

@Toto:

The point is the manual clearly points out to the reader what is NOT mandatory so I think that is good enough.

Correct, and if a newbie read it the first time, he might invest a high effort to get it,
just to see at the end this test wasn’t mandory (yet).

Anyway, I have to many stupid ideas these days, LOL,
and those good lads posting here know better than I
how this sim should be learned.

Cheers,
LS

[Toto]

@lazystone:

Me, personally, … nothing.
Manuals are fine for me !

+1 here, … and you know I’m lazy.

Correct, and if a newbie read it the first time, he might invest a high effort to get it,
just to see at the end this test wasn’t mandory (yet).

Anyway, I have to many stupid ideas these days, LOL,
and those good lads posting here know better than I
how this sim should be learned.

Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LS

I think you make valid points and support anyone questioning the status quo in order to improve our little hobby!

[coolhand]

Personally, I think it’s a great manual and I’m very happy to have it. It’s filling in SO many gaps in my limited knowledge. It’s concise and covers a lot of ground quickly. I’ll be working through it all, along with the missions, step by step until it becomes second nature. That should leave me very little time for nit-picking. I’m tired of climbing in the MP pit and having to rely on the other pilots to “get me sorted”. I’m tired of the fog of war becoming pea soup for me… and having my stupid, sofakinglazy ass swinging from the silk.

My hat’s off to Red Dog. Great job! Thanks a ton.

Cool Hand (aka [email protected]*******.com);)

[Red Dog]

lol, thanks Coolhand

The manual is WIP anyway and I hope to add more training missions in future updates

[sjuswede]

Ok, so you’re not confused. Then I fail to see why you think others would be. It seems that what you call “eye candy” is good practices to make sure things are working, and I don’t think that will confuse anyone, or turn anyone away from the sim. On the contrary, doing the ramp start for the first time is exhilarating for most people, and knowing all one can do when ramp starting is awesome. The “eye candy” is a BONUS which will make newbies HAPPY. Take it away, and ramp start looks more like a boring routine than like an adventure to find out how the jet works!

Jesper