Refueling Issue
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So, I never used anything but the realistic AR setting before (4.32 and back). And I never flew anything but the Viper(s). With 4.33, after the joy of seeing fleshed-out (mostly) F18,Tornado, AV8, I immediately started to fly them, as I normally do (lot’s of training sorties, all included AR). AR wasn’t an issue with a little regular practice. And in 4.33, with the Viper, it’s still straight-forward - it works.
However, after working my tail off trying to get the Probe-in-the-probe thing with the above mentioned aircraft (I know that probe-and-drogue isn’t “in there” yet, but I’m into pain). If this is a repeat forgive - I didn’t find anything about Non-F16 refueling issues on the first few Google pages. Here’s what I’m seeing.
Realist mode: every so often it ‘spits me out’ - my F18/AV8 gets tossed several thousand feet away (sometimes up, sometimes out, sometimes out in front) when I’m near the boom.
Simple & Easy Modes: The ‘tractor beam’ thingy grabs me but it gripes about my position, a lot; ends up being more difficult than boom-AR in the Viper on realistic mode. And it every so often spits me out here too.
Thanks ahead of time. And thanks you BMS - you made this old guy a happy simmer again!
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Done some more digging and, is this, from 2011-ish, still relevant? Not sure what BMS version this was.
"The drogue code was turned off because: it didn’t work, wasn’t maintainable, used a bad model, was pro"cedurally broken, and generally added little value over what is in there now for probe refueling which is treating the boom as though it magically has a basket when it needs one – the old “hose” was effectively just a boom drawn badly anyway.
To do this right would need a physics model for animating a hose and a model of a hose that behaves right. Both of these things are absent today and to my knowledge no one is working on either thing. It gets talked about periodically but that’s about all."
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Status quo has not changed for basket refueling. The challenge really hinges on having a flexible, retractable model of a hose that can be animated properly from the code. If such a thing existed then it might be worth reconsidering proper support for probe-and-drogue AAR; as things stand what you see now is what you get.
However…
To my knowledge there have been no reports of the position throw/warping that you mention from the test team. I know there are people using AAR with probe equipped jets though. If you can describe a reliable repro scenario perhaps we could take a look at this…seems “wrong”.
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Thanks for that sir,
I can live with it the way it is (graphics/algorithm) if it didn’t warp me away on, oh, every n-th “stab” (in a 30 minute period it did it 3 times). I’ll work on trying to reproduce, staring with ACMI video playback.
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To be clear, video or ACMI demo would be useful but the key is a set of reliable steps to induce the symptom to occur on a developer’s machine. This code is complicated enough that without a repro, there’s no practical chance of doing anything with it.
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Boxer,
Understand, I’ve been there. Still digging… -
Ok, after 14 hours of AR I’ve some observations, and hopefully something useful (to someone):
64-Bit
Realistic AR mode
Probe’d acft: F18C, AV8B+, Tornado GR
Boom’d: F16, F15E-
Probed acft: You get only 1 shot at refueling; if you disconnect then you have to end AR (y:3), move away a bit, then restart the entire process. After the first ‘stab’, and disconnect, you no longer get any guidance (lights in Realistic, or voice in Simple difficulty). and you never connect.
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Probjed acft: 5 out of 6 flights, (once it didn’t happen - hate these kind of things), when the tanker makes a turn (just after the “heads up” call), it slows down dramatically, causing you to overshoot. I have a video if useful (several actually).
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Sometimes, when you’re really close to the boom tip, you get ‘warped’ off a ways from the tanker. This feels like it’s part of the “tractor beam” thing; maybe some left-over velocities, or state, perhaps, and when some param’s are exceeded, you get slung away. Far away (hundreds, or more, feet). This happened the first several times I tried it (see above post), yet wasn’t able to re-produce it this last session while recording.
None of the above issues happened with the boomed receiver acft (F16, F15). AR went smoothly. Would connect, slow down forcing a disconnect, then nuzzle back up and connect. All with guidance from the lights post disconnect. Did this 3-4 times per flight in these acft.
I flew ‘standard’ type missions built in the in-sim editor; myself & an AI wingman; intercept the tanker - to simulate normal situations (though yes it did take longer this way). Half head-on intercepts, half over-hauling tanker from behind.
I got really good at head-on intercepts & joining with the tanker
Window 10 64 bit (kept up-to-date)
D3D API Ver: 12
D3D Feature level: 11
nVidia GTX 570 (latest drivers), 4GB grapfix memory
Intel duel-core I5 2500 @ 3.2ghz
8Gb RAM
CH-products Fighter stick & Pro ThrottleLoving the AV8 and F18! And the Tornado! Haven’t flown any others (beyond this test)
Check Six
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Hi there,
Same problem here, I have a theory, In planes like F-16 you put the plane below the tanker avoiding the turbulence wake caused by the engines, In a plane like F-18 you put the plane just behind the boom and getting affected by this turbulence.
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Ok, after 14 hours of AR I’ve some observations, and hopefully something useful (to someone):
64-Bit
Realistic AR mode
Probe’d acft: F18C, AV8B+, Tornado GR
Boom’d: F16, F15E-
Probed acft: You get only 1 shot at refueling; if you disconnect then you have to end AR (y:3), move away a bit, then restart the entire process. After the first ‘stab’, and disconnect, you no longer get any guidance (lights in Realistic, or voice in Simple difficulty). and you never connect.
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Probjed acft: 5 out of 6 flights, (once it didn’t happen - hate these kind of things), when the tanker makes a turn (just after the “heads up” call), it slows down dramatically, causing you to overshoot. I have a video if useful (several actually).
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Sometimes, when you’re really close to the boom tip, you get ‘warped’ off a ways from the tanker. This feels like it’s part of the “tractor beam” thing; maybe some left-over velocities, or state, perhaps, and when some param’s are exceeded, you get slung away. Far away (hundreds, or more, feet). This happened the first several times I tried it (see above post), yet wasn’t able to re-produce it this last session while recording.
None of the above issues happened with the boomed receiver acft (F16, F15). AR went smoothly. Would connect, slow down forcing a disconnect, then nuzzle back up and connect. All with guidance from the lights post disconnect. Did this 3-4 times per flight in these acft.
I flew ‘standard’ type missions built in the in-sim editor; myself & an AI wingman; intercept the tanker - to simulate normal situations (though yes it did take longer this way). Half head-on intercepts, half over-hauling tanker from behind.
I got really good at head-on intercepts & joining with the tanker
Window 10 64 bit (kept up-to-date)
D3D API Ver: 12
D3D Feature level: 11
nVidia GTX 570 (latest drivers), 4GB grapfix memory
Intel duel-core I5 2500 @ 3.2ghz
8Gb RAM
CH-products Fighter stick & Pro ThrottleLoving the AV8 and F18! And the Tornado! Haven’t flown any others (beyond this test)
Check Six
ok lets be clear
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AAR for OFM aicrafts are suffering from old tractor beam problems including strange warping.
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Y3 and beeinf force to go away and come back is intended behavior
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boom and recpt AC are exactly the same. absolutly zero difference other than a x, y, z position of the refueling point
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only realistic refuel is really supported, other modes may have bugs vut we have no interest to take care
in short for a correct expérience, use AAR with AFM aircrafts (f16, mirage, f18, av8) and only i realistic mode
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