Yellow spider

[Ironman53rd]

Just a quick question - in 4.33 is clicking the “yellow spider” supposed to close the canopy?

[Guest]

@Ironman53rd:

Just a quick question - in 4.33 is clicking the “yellow spider” supposed to close the canopy?

Not the spider itself, but the canopy switch below on the wall.

[Ironman53rd]

many thanks - they hid it well didn’t they ???

[Blu3wolf]

Isnt it in the same spot as 4.32?

[Tiffy]

No. It had two spots in 4.32. One was close to the Threat warning panel and was hard to use the other was higher on the spider (can’t recall where without starting sim). In 4.33 it has been moved to be the rear or the mounting block the spider attaches too. I’ll post a picture If my vague, woolly description of its location isn’t helpful…

[Blu3wolf]

Mm. I just assumed it was the same spot because I found it pretty much straight away.

[JJO]

This is an old topic, but i have some questions about open and closing the canopy and the spider.
In real the canopy switch is steady in up position, there is a neutral position and there is a momentary position down. That means the pilot has to hold the close position until the canopy locks the latches. After that the spider needs to closed to prevent moving the canopy switch. At the same time the spider closes it presses a switch and the pressure tube fills up. After that the canopy warning light goes out. Is there a callback available to program this situation in our 1:1 simulator ? Or anybody a suggestion how to program this with keys or AIC ?

[Stubbies2003]

@JJO:

This is an old topic, but i have some questions about open and closing the canopy and the spider.
In real the canopy switch is steady in up position, there is a neutral position and there is a momentary position down. That means the pilot has to hold the close position until the canopy locks the latches. After that the spider needs to closed to prevent moving the canopy switch. At the same time the spider closes it presses a switch and the pressure tube fills up. After that the canopy warning light goes out. Is there a callback available to program this situation in our 1:1 simulator ? Or anybody a suggestion how to program this with keys or AIC ?

Your description of the canopy system is spot on for the real aircraft but this is one of the systems that is simplified in the sim so no there is no way that I know of to separate it to the canopy close THEN the spider handle. It is all on the one callback.

[JJO]

Thanks for your reply, lets see i can simulate with the options there are available. I need to interupt the warning light until the spider is closed.

[Stevie]

I have a spider, and Pegasus makes the bracket, so as I see it there are two switches involved - one with three positions, and one with a single momentary. Need to .and. those signals together - i.e.; (canopy closed.and.spider down) to feed signal to the Warning light.

May want to look, AIC may do this in software for you - I know it has a similar sort of option to feed the delay for the JFS light.

[JJO]

Yes, i will check it also, maybe i have to make something between the pit and the final callback…

[Stevie]

If you are using Pokeys (I’m planning on using Pokeys - still a long way for me to go, though) or Arduino then you also have the option of having the device intercede…but hopefully AIC has solved this problem for us, as my turn at this will also come!

[Red Dog]

As far as I know, the Spider lock isn’t implemented in BMS.
There is no callback for that and there’s no variable in the shared mem

AIC doens’t have it either - it reads the value of the canopy warning bit and that one is from the canopy switch alone

I could make a feature request but it’s going to be low priority.
Does Martin’s support for the spider has that button? (I have a spider but no support for it yet)

[JJO]

Would be great if this functionality is offered by BMS. It,s mainly important for 1:1 sim builders, but it is also an option that gives more reality to the software also for desktop pilots.

[Stevie]

@Red:

As far as I know, the Spider lock isn’t implemented in BMS.
There is no callback for that and there’s no variable in the shared mem

AIC doens’t have it either - it reads the value of the canopy warning bit and that one is from the canopy switch alone

I could make a feature request but it’s going to be low priority.
Does Martin’s support for the spider has that button? (I have a spider but no support for it yet)

Yes - it has the support for both the Canopy switch an the roller topped plunger switch that is actuated by the spider. Simple enough task for us cockpit builders to add some external logic in Pokeys to blend the two switches into operation of the one bit/callback. I believe there are a number of instances like this where BMS doesn’t support a function that I’m planning to implement in hardware. I’ll report as I encounter.

EDIT: Actually, RD - going back and looking at pictures again it looks like the two switches require two different mountings, one of which looks like it is on the cabin structure and not the bracket (hard to find a good picture of the mounting, with the side panel plastic removed). But the possibility is still there for a pit builder to mount and interface both switches - I have both switches and intend to use them.

[Falcas]

I also have a real spider, but it has one switch only for moving the canopy. The spider itself is nothing more than a large switch guard and is not connected to any ciruit at all. The spider limits the travel of the throttle as it is in front of it. It makes it possible to taxi with the canopy open, but not setting full power.

The canopy light on the glareshield comes on if the pressure seal of the canopy is not correct (and/or canopy is open)
The light will be off as soon as the canopy is closed. The spider position has nothing to do with this.

As far as I can tell the it works as it should in BMS and you don’t need to change anything.

EDIT: One thing I forgot… The inside of the spider has a little part which can be adjusted. When you close the spider this part pushes the canopy switch down. So no need to hold the switch down and wait, you can just close the spider.

And as always, there might be different versions.

Gr Falcas

[JJO]

Hi Falcas, some extra info to think about. The spider has no electronics, thats correct, but the spider does not push the switch down, it protects the middle position of the switch. To open the canopy , just put the switch in up position. When a pilot wants to make fun with the crewchief , he leaves the switch there. When the crewchief closes the canopy from the outside and walks away after closing, the canopy re-opens
There are several momentary switches in the cockpit that are activated after the canopy is closed, one of them is beneath the spider, another one is in front of the aft glareshield. The spider activates the one beneath it. Another function of the spider is activate the valve for floating the canopy seal, after opening the spider the seal will be depressed.
For closing the canopy the pilot needs to hold the switch down, its a safety situation, there could a hand of the crewchief or something else on the canopy sill. Releases the switch stops closing immediatly. The pilot holds the switch until the hooks of the canopyframe crab the latches (6 of them)
For our sims we need to make some electronics or hardware to simulate the canopy operation correctly.
Edit : there might be a combination of activation that turn the light of, i will do extra study

[Red Dog]

The spider is indeed nothing more than a guard

The canopy switch is right. The pushbutton that inflate the seal is left.
The spider guards the canopy switch but press the pushbutton

As far as I can tell, there is no push button on Martin’s adapter. the hole for the canopy switch support is there, but no support for the pushbutton. The reason is that that push button is inside the left sidewall, it’s not on the canopy spider support. (in fairness so isn’t the canopy switch hole But Martin smartly decided to make it part of the support assy)
I just wasn’t able yet to figure out which part of the spider pushes it…. It seems it’s the half round part of the spider but the image below tend to prove otherwise unless that part was broken…

EDIT: One thing I forgot… The inside of the spider has a little part which can be adjusted. When you close the spider this part pushes the canopy switch down. So no need to hold the switch down and wait, you can just close the spider.

I thought so too, but looking at this picture, it seems not quite possible

Look at how the switch is pinched between the fixed end of the spider and the adjustable part?
It doesn’t seem to me that the switch has enough room to be held down by the adjustable spider parts.
Beside that would be an obvious breach of an important canopy closing safety feature, no?

[JJO]

Great info and very nice picture, the half circle part presses the valve. On the spider there is an extension forward of the switch protection. That one presses the switch with the little wheel. When you have a real spider you can see that the paint is off at that point. The spider is indeed not pressing the switch down.

I own all parts of the spider section, i only miss the top of the valve. If anybody has that part for me, it would be great !

[Red Dog]

in a BMS cockpit, any pushbutton will do.