SAM capabilities

[Daisan]

Flying in 4.33, we have found that SAM capabilities have been highly modified. We are being engaged by SA-2, located at sea level ( 23 ft), when we are flying as low as 300 ft agl over the sea. I mean locked and fired at, not flying higher and being followed low by the missile. We are mud spiked at 70 ft AGL. I have been looking in tactical reference documents, and I have never found such low values. In BMS 4.32 min SA2 altitude was 2250ft. Is there any way to get the numbers for 4.33 apart from empirical test?

Thank you!

[dolphins72]

hi friends,
in any flight of BMS, i test any solution and it’s very strong to escape if you engaged by SA and more same family radar
but i know that that i test to flight to 20-30 feet to escape and use split to escape with hight break altitude in different solution and use chaff in different sequence
but if you must escape escape at dead you must use feel of machine and you must know any right information on this machine
with this solution, i resit at more five sam in same time
best regards
sf

[molnibalage]

@Daisan:

Flying in 4.33, we have found that SAM capabilities have been highly modified. We are being engaged by SA-2, located at sea level ( 23 ft), when we are flying as low as 300 ft agl over the sea. I mean locked and fired at, not flying higher and being followed low by the missile. We are mud spiked at 70 ft AGL. I have been looking in tactical reference documents, and I have never found such low values. In BMS 4.32 min SA2 altitude was 2250ft. Is there any way to get the numbers for 4.33 apart from empirical test?

Thank you!

The min. eng. data in dat files are 100% correct the terrain mesh and LOS calculation what (likely) causes trouble. In RL if the SA-2 is higher than you it does not matter that you fly at 70 ft because from Volhol SA-2 had MTI (moving target indicator) capability which made possible to engange target in ground clutter in most of cases. (In Falcon BMS4.33 the look down range in only 0.1.)

Tacref in Falcon BMS4.33 is outdated and as well as the very old Tacref pdf. It is pointless to use any of these stuff because as I know none of them never checked the modeling of any Falcon 4 legacy simulator. The Tacref in BMS4.33 is simply a legacyl of Falcon 4.0 when Internet connection was not available from 99% of players and functionad as a small book. It is only a “ruin” of an “ancient” time.

Regardless of new SAM data most of SAM do not use the max. available kinematics of missils and even if they do beacause of their modeling values (very low ECM resistance). By simply turning on the jammer you are safe up to a very, very small distance.
In RL the eng. zone where the missile is able to fly is displayed below. (With 0 km parameter which mean target flies exactly to SA-2 site.) This means against an approaching target can be launched earlier the intercept / impact point has to be within this distance.

Modeling the RL capabilites of SAMs and ECM with current DB and code is simply impossible and even it was would require lots of work to apply on each systems what you can have any info. Which means olny old systems. This is way beyond the capability of any current of future flight sims.

[Scrim]

You’re not going to have as much luck as I think you’re expecting flying low to escape/evade SAMs. Regarding the SA-2, the oldest SAM you’ll come across in BMS, the USAF decided it couldn’t track below 300ft during the Vietnam war. The pilots going North and the Warsaw Pact and North Vietnamese SAM crews didn’t necessarily agree with that…

So suffice to say, you shouldn’t regard flying low as a magic cure against any SAMs. Can definitely help in some circumstances though of course.

[Red Dog]

the further you are from the radar, the higher you can fly.
it’s easy to fly low to avoid sams, especially in montaneous terrain. Just bear in mind that the closest you get from the radar, the lowest you have to fly. At some point, the radar will win if he’s got LOS on you.

Use you RWR in Search mode, once it goes acquisition, go down, start again
or go low, ingress monitor S on RWR. Once it turns acquisition (say 3-4 or whatever symbol) expect troubles if you can’t go lower

[Stevie]

…low enough to avoid SAMs, high enough to avoid AAA and other surface nasties…it’s a trading game, and MMV.