[AGM-65] How to hit my GMT's?
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Everyone should learn and be comfortable with EO-BORE mode delivery of Maverick before concerning themselves with more integrated delivery methods. The emphasis is that the Maverick immediately before launch is entirely self-supporting. What sensors, modes, and methods used to get the Maverick in the tracking ready-to-fire state are irrelevant immediately before firing. Much like an uncaged AIM-9, it’s all about the missile and nothing else.
Maverick/rack misalignment is in angles not meters. So the distance in the ground plane from the uncalibrated LOS to the calibrated LOS is entirely dependent on the geometry of the situation. I found it’s roughly the radius of the NFOV of the Maverick. There’s a good chance your target won’t be visible in NFOV but you’ll see it in WFOV.
+1, and very well stated.
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Sudden system-philosophical thought: Why is it that the system is able to interpret what the Mav’s doing regardless of configuration (i.e. show the seeker’s exact position on the HUD wether it is boresighted or not), but not allign it with SOI unless you go through boresighting? I mean, the system evidently has all the data it needs, why just not put one “dot” on top of the other?
Happy new year, guys (and happy new Mav-questions)! :drink:
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If the “1” and “2” circles are exactly over their true LOSs despite non-zero calibration errors then that is a shortcoming of FBMS. In reality given misalignment the HUD elements and the true LOS of the missile would differ.
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Sudden system-philosophical thought: Why is it that the system is able to interpret what the Mav’s doing regardless of configuration (i.e. show the seeker’s exact position on the HUD wether it is boresighted or not), but not allign it with SOI unless you go through boresighting? I mean, the system evidently has all the data it needs, why just not put one “dot” on top of the other?
Happy new year, guys (and happy new Mav-questions)! :drink:
I didn’t understood exactly the meaning here, but of course the missile LOS circle in the HUD reflects the missile LOS (which in PRE mode means SPI position + boresight error).
The Boresight error is just a delta added to wherever the missile would have looked if it had no boresight error.I guess this statement sounds dumb, but that’s what it is :mrgreen:
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…no.
The HUD LOS symbol represents the idealized perfect missile LOS not necessarily the actual LOS. The circle represents where the airplane thinks the missile is looking but it can be wrong (think AIM-9 and wingtip flex). If the missile is crooked to the left then the video will show looking to the left despite the HUD symbols pointing straight ahead. The pointing cross will also reflect the deviation from the seeker gimbal from center of its motion. If you slew the LOS circle in the HUD over the item and look at the weapon video the view will be left of the HUD circle placement. All the airplane can know is that if the missile reports looking straight ahead that it must also paint the HUD symbol straight ahead. The need for calibration is that the missile’s straight ahead may be different than the airplane’s. When calibrated the airplane understands that missile-straight is airplane-left and to achieve airplane-straight seeker pointing to direct the missile to look right.
For example if the Maverick is slewed over a target and locked the circle in the HUD might not be over the real object. When boresight calibration is pressed it is the circle that moves, not the missile LOS.
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…no.
The HUD LOS symbol represents the idealized perfect missile LOS not necessarily the actual LOS. The circle represents where the airplane thinks the missile is looking but it can be wrong (think AIM-9 and wingtip flex). If the missile is crooked to the left then the video will show looking to the left despite the HUD symbols pointing straight ahead. The pointing cross will also reflect the deviation from the seeker gimbal from center of its motion. If you slew the LOS circle in the HUD over the item and look at the weapon video the view will be left of the HUD circle placement. All the airplane can know is that if the missile reports looking straight ahead that it must also paint the HUD symbol straight ahead. The need for calibration is that the missile’s straight ahead may be different than the airplane’s. When calibrated the airplane understands that missile-straight is airplane-left and to achieve airplane-straight seeker pointing to direct the missile to look right.
For example if the Maverick is slewed over a target and locked the circle in the HUD might not be over the real object. When boresight calibration is pressed it is the circle that moves, not the missile LOS.
Yes yes indeed you are correct, and BMS code is wrong indeed from that aspect, I guess I just missed that, thanx!
I will fix it.
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Here is a pic that shows the slip:
I’ve loaded 4 AGM-65-D, I shoot the first, uncage the next, no slip (like that).
But if there would be time/range for another shot, it (the seeker) slips away.
Or/and…if I made two shots in the first run the slips exists after the first shot of the second run.BTW and please don’t shame on me:
What is LOS? I read the Mav part of the training pdf, no explanation (AFAIK)… I also searched the internet, but couldn’t find an explanation…Greeting
Earlybite -
Its just all to hard, just fly in there and kill the dame tanks will you, and stop twilldiling your thumbs about LOS, SOI deviation, key hole parameters and god knows what else.
Just kill the bad communist basteidos (soon to be capitalist) before they resize that they too can have a higher standard of living.
PS: I spent weeks learning/relearning TGP targeting & Mav delivery. It was fun.
LOS- Line Of Sight
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Here is a pic that shows the slip:
I just tested Mavericks, and the boresight errors gap is not that large, I mean it can be quite large on the ground, but in LOS it’s usually always inside the HUD (assuming you are not too close…)
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I just tested Mavericks, and the boresight errors gap is not that large, I mean it can be quite large on the ground, but in LOS it’s usually always inside the HUD (assuming you are not too close…)
No.
Do not know.
Yes.
Yes.
But, why after the second, or the third missile?
In my TE I´ve the D-type and carry 4 missiles.
Shot-1: a very small slip after uncaging the next missile
Shot-2: a very big slip after uncaging the next missile
It is (IMHO and with my skill) impossible to fire more then two missiles with a steady cross (aka target hit)… -
Two missiles per pass is a good level of skill especially for uncalibrated missiles. The offset should be random from station to station. Sometimes I feel the offset error doesn’t kick in for a second which is quite disorienting.
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Hi,
I played a bit more with Mavs, and I think I know what is the “slip” you were talking about. If the TGP is on the other MFD (even if in slave mode, but it is controlling the SPI, of course) there seems to be a bug which cause the newly selected missile to “jump” a bit when slewing starts, that is definitely a bug and I will chase it. However the bug seems to happen only when using the TGP as the SPI controller, when using the FCR, the bug doesn’t exist. Interesting, I will fix it.
Regarding the number of Mavs u can release in a single pass, well using maximum range and medium speed (Mach ~0.7), I was able to fire 8 missiles on a tank column and still slice back at more than 6NM stand-off distance, and BTW that’s without my HOTAS plugged in (keyboard control :)) here is a vid (Currently low res, wait for it to process it should be 1200p):
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Im glad you found some…!
But, this isn´t for my issue…
(This is with TGP on board, but *not activated…)Please have again a look:
This is (with 4 AGM-65-D) the slip after the first shot and uncage (it was directly over the coloumn, of course)…
And this is the slip after the seceond shot and uncage…
Sure, 2 miles is short (I couldn´t get earlier a stable cross), but it doesn´t matter if there are 4, 5, 2 miles…, after the second shot and uncaging #3 the slip gets *very huge.
Greeting
Earlybite
EDIT:
I had 3 hits! First time I really had three hits!
I´m still excited<heavy breathing!=“”>, what was different?!
AFAIK I CZ FCR…
FCR -> GMT -> Markpoint -> CZ -> ICP 0 -> WEAPON page
The seeker stayed in the area over the coloumn!I will have further tries…
Greeting
Earlbyite</heavy> -
OK then probably we aren’t talking about the same “slip”
You can see in my vid above I fired 8 missiles in a single pass on a tank column.
Can you please take a video of what you are doing EXACTLY when you see this slip? because I think there is something here which doesn’t sounds right. Even the slip bug that I mentioned above is relatively small (although still annoying from system work POV) and in now way 1-2NM, your slip sounds more like some procedure done wrong.
If you use Markpoint and choose that markpoint as current then you MUST CZ before you intend to use the markpoint position, because otherwise the cursor will be positioned at the MKPT position + system deltas. Read the SPI section in the 3-4 again please for further reference about SPI and System deltas.
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Was your Mav- target cross flashing after lock and before you shoot?
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/New_Year/smilie_new_210.gifCheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSAnd not forgotten: Like I already posted, I didn’t know
But now I always have a look on that…
Thank you sir!Greeting
Earlybite -
could it be that the Maverick power was on for too long a period, or that the video was on for too long?
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could it be that the Maverick power was on for too long a period, or that the video was on for too long?
Yes, Maverick power is limited like the real thing :rtfm:
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at this point I am 100% confident that there is a bug. I went by the book and did not miss one single step in Bore sighting the Maverick, and in fact hit some of the targets in TE with sunny weather including the AAA with radar. I watched the youtube presentation on that for many times, and everything is absolutely spic and span before firing the Maverick. Yet when I fire the Maverick I still get a miss. One miss and one hit both under exactly the same conditions no difference whatsoever. Are the Mavericks made to have a probabilistic hit and miss regardless of how they are set up?
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If someone asked me yesterday if excessive Maverick video on time was modeled in BMS I would have said no. So I’ll ask for it to be said clearly. Is there any actual difference in BMS between Maverick running for 5 minutes or 50?
Osmeen, hard to say without ACMI/video. The difference between a good and poor track are quite subtle. I’m a little concerned about all this boresighting talk as it has nothing to do with missile track quality.