Critique requested on popup video script
I’m sure there are more holes in this than the average Swiss cheese, and I imagine I’m missing a few items of use and/or interest:
the purpose of the popup approach is to minimise exposure to air defence weapons. we use terrain masking into and out of the target area
we’re approaching the target at 500 feet A G L at about 550 knots and we’re on a heading of 1 8 0
we’re in air to ground mode with steerpoint six selected
we’re using C C R P delivery mode so that we can use the azimuth steering line to provide a heading to the target
today we’re using a 20 L A L D popup attack profile, which consists of a 20 degree shallow dive onto the target, from low altitude, using low drag bombs
since the Minimum Release Altitude, or M R A, is particularly important for a popup attack, we’ll set M S L FLOOR of the A-LOW U F C to it. the M R A is 2100 feet A G L, but as Kotar elevation is 2850 we add that to the M R A and enter 4950 feet. all altitudes must include local elevation
the action point, which is the point at which we’ll begin to execute our attack, will be 4.2 miles from the target, as indicated by the steerpoint data in the bottom right of the HUD
at that point we will climb to what’s known as the pull down altitude, which is 3800 feet A G L, and we’ll do that at an angle of 30 degrees. we calculate that by adding 10 degrees to the angle of the dive onto the target. if the angle of the dive was less than 20 degrees then we would add 5 degrees to the climb angle
the apex is the maximum altitude for pull down, and is 4400 feet A G L. we don’t want to climb higher than that
when we have reached the pull down altitude we will roll inverted, identify the target, then once the target has been spotted we select C C I P mode, roll back wings level and proceed with a standard C C I P attack
the Planned Release Altitude, or P R A, is the altitude at which bombs should be released, which is 2500 feet A G L
the M R A is 2100 feet A G L. if bombs are not released by this point we should abort the attack and come off dry. as we have set M S L FLOOR to 4950 we will hear a warning if we reach this level
So, I gather this pop up attack is computed with WDP, and executed on axis?
I dont think I have ever flown a popup without an offset built into it. Sometimes the offset is provided by my initial flight path prior to the action point, and sometimes I turn at the action point to create the offset. Either way I make another turn, at the pull down point, by rolling less than fulling inverted for the pull down.
I almost exclusively fly popups using the visual cues in the HUD that can be programmed to assist you there. These cues are the OA1, OA2, TGT and VIP/VRP sighting points. They can be programmed into the jet using the UFC or saved into the DTC prior to flight, and loaded during the ramp start. WDP can calculate the appropriate values to program the points correctly, and also save those calculated values into the DTC for you prior to flight. However, I can see the benefit to doing a video that trains the basic concept behind the attack, that trains the flying skills rather than the green stuff skills.
You get the most benefit in BMS (and RL) from direct terrain masking, where there is terrain inbetween you and the threat. You can to a lesser extent benefit from indirect terrain masking also. This is where there is an uninterrupted LOS from your jet to the threat, but from the threats perspective, behind you is terrain - and thus you benefit from ground clutter. Look down shoot down radars (such as the one in your F-16) are pretty much immune to this in BMS (and this is mostly the case IRL, although anything which is at the same distance as the ground is should be blanked - so if you are at 6,000 feet, your radar should have a blind zone 1 mile out. This does not happen with BMS presently yet though). To my knowledge, no ground radar in BMS requires a blue sky background to shoot at you, so the benefit there is pretty limited too. The only real use there is for when you are perhaps flying beneath older fighter aircraft, which do not have look down capabilities.
If you wanted to go over more stuff in the video (and if you dont, it looks pretty good to me as it is), I would recommend checking out the MCH included in your BMS install. IIRC, it has a section on pop up attacks, which might be of some use.
Thanks, Blu. It should be SOP for me to look at the multi-command handbook.
This uses the training mission on GP bombs, but I do need to familiarise myself with WDP. I presume it replicates the functions of the ACC F-16 Weapons Delivery Program?
I’ve re-written the text to clarify some points:
A highly sophisticated and integrated SAM, triple A, air-to-air threat environment or weather may force a low-level ingress and pop-up attack
in this example we’re using a direct pop-up, and we’re on an approach heading of 1 8 0 towards our initial point
the aircraft is in air to ground mode with steerpoint six selected, and we’re using C C R P delivery mode so that we can use the azimuth steering line to provide a heading to the target
today we’re using a 20 L A L D pop-up attack profile, a low-angle delivery of low-drag weapons using a 20 degree Dive Angle
since the Minimum Release Altitude, or M R A, is particularly important for a popup attack, we’ll set this to Minimum Safe Level, or M S L, FLOOR of the Altitude-LOW, or A-LOW, page using the U F C. the M R A is 2100 feet A G L, but as Kotar elevation is 2850 we add that to the M R A and enter 4950 feet. all altitudes must include local elevation
the pop point, which is the point at which we’ll initiate our attack, will be 4.2 miles from the target, as indicated by the steerpoint data in the bottom right of the HUD
at that point we will select desired power, afterburner or military power, and make a 3–4 G wings-level pull at the desired Climb Angle, in this example 30 degrees, initiate any desired chaff/flare program, and climb to what’s known as the Pull Down Altitude, which is 3800 feet A G L. we calculate that by adding 10 degrees to the angle of the Dive Angle onto the target. if the angle of the dive was less than 20 degrees then we would add 5 degrees to the Climb Angle
Apex is the maximum altitude for pull down, and is 4400 feet A G L. we don’t want to climb higher than that
when we have reached the Pull Down Altitude, we have reached the Pull-Down Point, or P D P, and we will roll inverted, identify the target, then once the target has been spotted we select C C I P mode with the N W S button and roll back wings level
for C C I P deliveries roll out with the target approximately halfway between the F P M and C C I P pipper
3–5 seconds of Tracking Time, the time from wings level time from roll out to weapons release, is enough for most deliveries
I dunno about replicates… Weapon Delivery Planner is the BMS software designed to make saving and editing your DTC easy. You can change a lot of things simply by using it. CWDS/MPS and FalconView are some of the equivalent RL F-16 programs, and in addition to generating DTC data, they cover comprehensive mission planning as well. The real life DTC can load a lot of data for systems not implemented in BMS, and the software can plan lots of stuff we have to use pen and paper for with the sim, or just skip the planning of - note that the skipping option is the one usually taken.
Id recommend checking out WDP, as it does have a reasonably comprehensive pop up attack planner in it.
Note that the longer your time on final, the easier the release is to make accurate. 3 seconds on final requires a fast and steady hand for a BMS pilot to get an accurate release. 5 seconds on final is about as long as you will see in the real world, but they practice flying a lot. The longer your time on final, the longer you are a predictable target, minimising the benefits of the popup.
I will defintely add WDP to my list of things to include in the BMS sequence. Thanks for underlining that as a tool to use.
at that point we will select desired power, afterburner or military power,
Apex is the maximum altitude for pull down, and is 4400 feet A G L. we don’t want to climb higher than that
never use AB in a pop up inless its a 45 degree pop up in which you do indeed need AB to reach the desired height.And you punch it in above say 6K-7K alt where MANPADS cannot reach you.In general you use only MIL power so as not to atract small IR missiles
The appex isnt the max altitude for pull down but rather the altitude you get to after you overbank and start rolling in on final after the PDP(unforunately it isnt computed in WDP)
Also for the script, a rule for overbank is 90 degrees plus the degrees of dive(in our example 90+20=110 degrees of overbank)
Amraam last edited by
Nope, IRL AB is well used for popup attack. The aircraft need to stay at the attack speed during all the attack (ie : 500 KTAS).
I had thought WDP did calculate apex separately from the roll in altitude…
And for the overbank, that assumes a turn. As noted above this is a straight ahead popup - not very prototypical, but it would require 180 degrees of overbank to work.
it just gives you the pull down alt and the release alt which you input.
Sorry, didnt see that its a roll and pull. Then, there is a high probability(almost certain) the parameters wont work for the attack.Try PUP at 5.4nm and roll inverted at 5.4 altitude with rolling to wings level when FPM is at 15 Dive Angle(5 degrees less than the planned dive angle)
On a final note, regarding AB, i just thought the release speed is what matters most.In all the vids i’ve seen, the speed during the maneuvers for the pop up, drops
For WDP? Works for me when I use it…
Release speed matters, speed on final matters. Speed during the pop only matters for deconfliction, but sans AB you could slow below tactical airspeeds (350KCAS minimum) depending on your loadout.
The appex isnt the max altitude for pull down but rather the altitude you get to after you overbank and start rolling in on final after the PDP
I think we may be talking about the same thing, but with slightly different wording.
I’m guided by the information from the following sources:
Apex is the maximum altitude reached while pulling down to target
- BMS-Training manual
Apex. The highest altitude in the pop-up delivery profile
- F-16 COMBAT AIRCRAFT FUNDAMENTALS - Multi-Command Handbook 11-F16 Vol5
Simple pop up attack.
1. CCRP mode running into target @ 200ft/500 kts
2. @ 5 nm miles from target make a left or right hand turn away from target approx 30 degrees
3. At 3.5 miles from target pull up 30 degrees full AB (don’t forget to drop countermeasures)
4. Approaching 4200 ft AGL (better still use MSL but remember 4200ft + target elevation) roll to put lift vector on target and pull the nose down towards target pulling around 5G
5. Roll out wings level for a 20 LALD delivery (go mil power)
6. Switch to CCIP mode, walk the pipper to the target and release.
7. Pull away on your already decided egress heading, fast and low dropping more countermeasures.
8. Admire your handy work