HMCS Questions
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Hi all,
I haven’t used HMCS for a handful of different reasons over the years, but I’m coming to the conclusion that in various applications it’s obviously superior to manual control of ACM submodes (which should really go without saying haha). When toying with it before, I had/have trouble with it distracting me regardless of the brightness. Also, it was difficult for me to find a balance of not solely relying on the telemetry provided by the HMCS for maneuvering, because since I can’t feel the jet I look forward at my HUD often with the pitch ladder up so I can garnish a better feel for my flight path, angle of bank, and precise pitch control above or below the horizon (not to mention the telemetry provided by the regular HUD).
So how I’ve offset maneuvering against other aircraft, is stubbornly trying to rely on experience at the times that I’m not able to acquire a radar lock and hope that my guessing of target maneuver potential is accurate. Well, regardless of how accurate it is (my guess), a confirmation via the radar is undeniable.
The key for my use of the system would be to train with it and and try to become accustomed to the telemetry in my face when I’m not looking at the HUD, and work out a balance of HMCS use, and also cross checking my flight path/plane of motion by glancing forward at my HUD.
I’ve heard other vpilots remark that they’re able to acquire locks outside 60 degrees, but might not always get telemetry until the target locked falls into the right spot for telemetry feedback. This is a bit lazy, because I’m sure it’s in the manual (rtfm?!) but was wondering if the HMCS gimbal limits are accurately modeled to the radar systems capabilities? Either way, it’s a great system, just one that I’ve purposefully chose not to use for stated reasons.
Is there a graphical representation that shows the complete area of coverage using HMCS for target acquisition?
Manual control of the radar which often requires angle of bank changes to get the lift vector in the right spot to acquire a lock, then readjusting is just not cutting it, this comes at the cost of time and energy, two precious commodities when maneuvering against another lethal threat at close range.
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I found it took quite a while to get used to……even though the figures were in my face, actually looking at them required a bit of effort.
The symbology seems fairly clear regarding limits (depending on AIM type) to me…actual limits not sure.
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Your approach seems very weird to me, you say you can’t feel the jet, and so have to look forward, but why? What in a dogfight makes you think you need to know your exact AoA? You should be looking at your target and using them as your frame of reference. Your HMCS displays the 3 critical pieces of information in a dogfight, Speed, Altitude and G. Altitude is there so you know how much life insurance you have, you can convert it to speed to pull tighter, or keep an eye on it to keep yourself from splatting into the ground. Speed and G are the active variables, push burner and pull until your speed drops to around 350, then ease the stick, then pull again, keeping on that line. If you’ve got to pull too hard to maintain speed, you trade altitude to keep that speed.
At no point in a dogfight does it matter what your AoA is as long as you keep in mind how fast you are and compare that to the number of Gs you’re pulling, and you don’t need to see the ground so long as you set up your altimeter properly and give yourself a nice cushion.
For Acquisition, I’m not sure what you mean here, but you can gain off boresight fixes by doing TMS Up (I think it’s TMS UP LONG) and a circular reticle will appear infront of you. That reticle is your new Boresight lock circle, turn your head until it goes over the enemy aircraft you want to lock. If it’s beyond radar gimbals, then the circle will not follow and limit itself to how far it can go. If you’re using an AMRAAM you obviously can’t shoot at a high off boresight, but if you’ve got an AIM-9X or a Python V missile, press Missile Uncage to uncage the seeker and it’ll give you a lock tone on the target and flip off the rail, over the shoulder into the enemy.
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Yikes! I dont think KV needs a lecture on BFM
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The radar or the seeker head are slaved to the HMCS depending on what you are equipped with.
Do this:
-Equip Aim-9s. When you go into dogfight mode now the missile will be slaved to the HMCS.
-Uncage the missile. You should see a diamond in the HMCS now. If you look off-boresight enough the diamond will disappear. That will be you limit.edit: Idk if this will give you telemetry at 60 deg, but test it out i guess… Check out page 123 of the dash1
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The radar or the seeker head are slaved to the HMCS depending on what you are equipped with.
Do this:
-Equip Aim-9s. When you go into dogfight mode now the missile will be slaved to the HMCS.
-Uncage the missile. You should see a diamond in the HMCS now. If you look off-boresight enough the diamond will disappear. That will be you limit.edit: Idk if this will give you telemetry at 60 deg, but test it out i guess… Check out page 123 of the dash1
Just make sure AIM-9 is in BORE mode. Otherwise it will be SLAVEd to radar.
And its good to use TD mode together with BORE mode. This gives automatic uncage as soon as missile seeker detects something. -
Yikes! I dont think KV needs a lecture on BFM
On BFM, sure. His videos often are impressive. If he wants to do ACM, looking forward as much as he usually does may become a problem though.
Notice I’m not saying he should do ACM. -
I found it took quite a while to get used to……even though the figures were in my face, actually looking at them required a bit of effort.
The symbology seems fairly clear regarding limits (depending on AIM type) to me…actual limits not sure.
Yeah that’s my hang up too. I’m gonna start forcing myself to use it. You and I been playing this for years before the system was even modeled lol, I don’t like changing old habits.
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Nice one KV……Although jumping into a MiG-15bis or F-100D in other sims is not a problem I do miss the JHCMS in the F-16C when I am messing around with 80s scenarios.
There seems to be value in the system in general campaign usage outside of turning HOBS fights…and any A-G use would be amazing in future (if implemented http://jhmcsii.com/technical-details/).
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Your approach seems very weird to me, you say you can’t feel the jet, and so have to look forward, but why? What in a dogfight makes you think you need to know your exact AoA? You should be looking at your target and using them as your frame of reference. Your HMCS displays the 3 critical pieces of information in a dogfight, Speed, Altitude and G. Altitude is there so you know how much life insurance you have, you can convert it to speed to pull tighter, or keep an eye on it to keep yourself from splatting into the ground. Speed and G are the active variables, push burner and pull until your speed drops to around 350, then ease the stick, then pull again, keeping on that line. If you’ve got to pull too hard to maintain speed, you trade altitude to keep that speed.
At no point in a dogfight does it matter what your AoA is as long as you keep in mind how fast you are and compare that to the number of Gs you’re pulling, and you don’t need to see the ground so long as you set up your altimeter properly and give yourself a nice cushion.
For Acquisition, I’m not sure what you mean here, but you can gain off boresight fixes by doing TMS Up (I think it’s TMS UP LONG) and a circular reticle will appear infront of you. That reticle is your new Boresight lock circle, turn your head until it goes over the enemy aircraft you want to lock. If it’s beyond radar gimbals, then the circle will not follow and limit itself to how far it can go. If you’re using an AMRAAM you obviously can’t shoot at a high off boresight, but if you’ve got an AIM-9X or a Python V missile, press Missile Uncage to uncage the seeker and it’ll give you a lock tone on the target and flip off the rail, over the shoulder into the enemy.
Hi Tirak,
It is weird. Perhaps it comes from years of play without the system being modeled, or properly modeled, so my approach to situational awareness is a bit awkward to say the least.
When I’m maneuvering, and then glancing forward at my HUD I’m not looking at my AoA. If I’m not actively using my ACM radar in neutral situations, my pitch ladder is up and I’m able to see precisely where my flight path marker is in relation to the horizon rather than just a visual indication. I can also see my mach and other important information that of which you’ve mentioned.
Also, by looking forward, I get a better perception of my actual flight path, turn geometry, spacial awareness, inertia, and momentum. These are things I otherwise feel in an actual maneuvering aircraft. Having a mental picture of the series of maneuvers being performed also helps a bit once refined. In regards to how to manage energy in relation to the bandit, and rate/radius control based on how the bandit is maneuvering I’m familiar with.
The mechanics of using HMCS I’m familiar with and know how to perform. It’s just the clutter is a distraction to how I track a bandit’s movement across my canopy. Not a big deal, just will have to get used to it. During these times where I’m measuring a bandit’s LOS rate without HMCS, and attempting to accurately guess their maneuver potential, HMCS is used to getting locks at these aspects. So it’s just a departure of how I’ve acquired locks for such a long time, which is by altering angle of bank picking the proper intercept of the scan, and pick them up along the 60 deg vertical. Then I would alter my angle of bank again to continue maneuvering or whatever. This costs time, manual manipulation of the ACM modes the old way is inferior, rather than the ease of HMCS use where the pilot can acquire those same locks without having to alter his flight path/angle of bank.
Hopefully that makes sense, like I said, my approach to situational awareness is awkward.
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On BFM, sure. His videos often are impressive. If he wants to do ACM, looking forward as much as he usually does may become a problem though.
Notice I’m not saying he should do ACM.Thanks man. I’m horrible at ACM, but I love to fly it anyway. Totally dig going up whenever guys are working ACM flights. I could try and make demonstrations on how NOT to do it correctly hahaha
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I just reread the -34 on the system, being slaved or not etc. So moving beyond the FCR’s limits it just stays on cue, even though HMCS LOS cannot currently be attained. I’m looking forward to utilizing it properly and seeing precisely which angles I’m able to acquire a lock and gather telemetry.
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HMCS - in some situations - can be “handy”.
- for me personally - usefull for getting quick confirmations of bandits energy state, in which there is little “geometric-time-window” to do so using FCR.
- or getting locks in wired attitudes, where “body-stabilized” ACM modes just dont cut it.
But that is where it ends for me!
The ability to lock “off-bore sight” can also be done with the FCR. Very fast and very close and efficiently.
Both ways you use the same antenna with the same gimble-limits, right? Doh!The key difference is THIS:
If you use HMCS, your need to SEE the bandit !!
If you use FCR, you dont have to SEE the bandit !! (… its is enough to know where his estimated area/location is ^^)In dogfights (WVR) - even in 2-cricles - i use FCR TWS (or ACM slew lately) - at 5nm-10nm Radar MFD range.
- i just slew and elevate the radar gate to where the bandit is
- TAP once or twice on TMS right (if in TWS)
- vio la… the bandit shows up in the FCR - with data. No need to move cursor over him at all (the radar already “sees”, you just “read out first target”)
- in both cases, using FCR or HMCS… one has to take off eyes and look down to the MFD page anyways to get a read.
Lately i started using ACM-Slew mode in ways i did not before
What other people prefer or believe works for them best… that they shall do.
Sidenote:
“FCR gimbals are handled differently whether the FCR is in a space-stabilized mode (like RWS, TWS, ACM-Slew) or body-stabilized (ACM-Bore, ACM-10x60, ACM-20x30).”
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@A.S:
If you use FCR, you dont have to SEE the bandit !! (… its is enough to know where his estimated area/location is ^^)
This is what often gets me turned into tinfoil confetti
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This is what often gets me turned into tinfoil confetti
Hehe.
Well, preferable is visually tally ofc - and only to look away in moments, in which a “look back” will not make the bandit “disapear” (loose him). You like doing that (saw in your videos).
Primarily relying on FCR is wrong i think.
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If you haven’t tried it yet, try the lvl 1 2 3 clutter options through the DED. Hands on DMS down select is useful as well. The 90 degree AIM-9X HOB ability is God-like in a knife fight. I always think it has missed when it really hasn’t had enough time to maneuver for the kill yet so wait for that second shot.
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…now we’re onto something.
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Yes! I re-read that this weekend (rtfm?!).
I just have to stop whining and practice with it. This thread coulda been handled that way, but I got some extra feedback that’s nice on guys techniques.
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The 90 degree AIM-9X HOB ability is God-like in a knife fight
90° ??? How is that supposed to work with no optical sensor and radar gimble limits of the antenna less than 90° ???
The Aim-9x probably can squint cross-eyed that much … but not your HMCS !?
Hmm wait… the missile-seaker slaved to the HMCS maybe?