Confused by radio calls
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Hi everyone,
Fist of all, my english sucks. Sorry for that.
I got back into Falcon with BMS a few months ago and it turned out, that a lot has changed since Falcon 4.0 AF and that i forgot a lot of the things that didn’t change. One of the things i forgot was about the radio calls, especially AWACS calls. I’ve read about 30% of the manual so far and tried to find something about it in the rest of the manuals, but somehow missed it. Also the forum search didn’t help much, so i pulled out my old original Falcon 4.0 manual to read it up there. But now i’m even more confused.
I wanted to know, what’s the exact difference in between “Request picture” and “Vector to nearest threat” and the original F4 manual says, “Request picture” will give you the vector to the nearest unidentified aircraft around you and “Vector to nearest threat” the vector to the nearest hostile aircraft around you.
But AWACS f.e. answers “Picture is multiple groups, nearest bandit bullseye XXX, XX miles, XXXXXXft” or “Nearest threat MiG29, 2 ship, bullseye XXX, XX miles XXXXXXft”. I’m playing flight sims for 25 years now and i’m pretty sure, that a “bandit” is a confirmed hostile radar contact while a unknown contact would be a “bogey”. From what i understand, “request picture” will give you the vector to the nearest hostile aircraft and “vector to neearest threat”, the vector to the nearest hostile aircraft, that is a threat to your flight. Or am I wrong? Can someone pls lighten this up for me?
Thanks a lot,
VpR -
Request Picture: AWACS is giving you BRA from multiple bandit groups from Bullseye not from you
Vector to nearest threat: AWACS is giving you from nearest bandits to you in BRA from Bullseye, but when they are a certain range away from you it will give the BRA from you
(in case you didn’t know, BRA: bearing, range altitude)
pls correct me if i’m wrong
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Request Picture: AWACS is giving you BRA from multiple bandit groups from Bullseye not from you
Vector to nearest threat: AWACS is giving you from nearest bandits to you in BRA from Bullseye, but when they are a certain range away from you it will give the BRA from you
(in case you didn’t know, BRA: bearing, range altitude)
pls correct me if i’m wrong
We won’t find it in the four basic manuals, so we need to be corrected by older members I suppose, but I beg to differ.
Picture seems to be about presence of non-allied aircrafts or choppers in the area, and if presence, the nearest.
Threat seems to be about enemy fighters in the area (bogies included?), and if so, the nearest.
Most will say the best AWACS operator is a human being. They’re that lucky.
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You arent far off, VpR. Technically HOSTILE is the call for a confirmed hostile radar contact, while bandit is a confirmed enemy. Just because the contact is an enemy, in the real world that rarely constitutes clearance to fire upon them. In BMS there is no distinction between enemies and enemies you can shoot.
AWAC calls really should be fixed, but making the AI work with the AWAC in a realistic fashion would be an interesting challenge. You are correct in the responses it gives anyway.
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The difference between bandit and hostile is permission to engage. You can’t get in trouble for shooting a hostile but you can for a bandit. I wouldn’t rely on this distinction in Falcon. Wingmen should generally call bandits since they aren’t in authority to give permission to kill, C2 should call bogey/outlaw/hostile based on their level of information. The concept of a bandit without permission to engage is not present in Falcon.
Picture is a picture of what’s around you, threats and non-threats alike. So an IL-28 flight will show up in a picture call but not a threat request because they aren’t threats to your flight. I haven’t tested to see if neutral flights show up in picture calls. If I’m at all concerned about the safety of the flight I ask for threat and once satisfied with that expand the search to picture. With a picture call alone you have to assume that if an enemy cargo plane is reported 20nm away that there might be a Flanker 4-ship 20nm+1 foot away. The question is what contacts “make the cut” to be considered threats. I think MiG-15 and up do.
BE/BRAA changeover happens at 20nm IIRC in all cases.
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In 4.33u1 I see changes including; it appears an added sense of realism has been incorporated for example AWACS is no longer all knowing and all seeing. helos and just launched Migs may or may not be apparent to AWACS and ground threats not on your map can be a big problem. This is a new timely realism and coupled with new SAM behavior has significantly increased the WTF factor as in r/l wars all sorts of stuff happens. Sure shot close range amraam’s missing, AGM-88’s nose on shot at 12 miles missing, threats not appearing until danger close or on any planning map, and now we have a far more realistic approach to Falcon which frankly I am thankful. Carry on Gentlemen and thank you.
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In 4.33u1 I see changes including; it appears an added sense of realism has been incorporated for example AWACS is no longer all knowing and all seeing. helos and just launched Migs may or may not be apparent to AWACS and ground threats not on your map can be a big problem. This is a new timely realism and coupled with new SAM behavior has significantly increased the WTF factor as in r/l wars all sorts of stuff happens. Sure shot close range amraam’s missing, AGM-88’s nose on shot at 12 miles missing, threats not appearing until danger close or on any planning map, and now we have a far more realistic approach to Falcon which frankly I am thankful. Carry on Gentlemen and thank you.
I just flew a mission where Q1 and Q2 both gave me bullseye BRA to targets far away and as I was turning to head that way a Mig or SU was turning to get on my six within a couple miles. I don’t know where it came from but it was a welcomed surprise. I was barely able to fire off an AIM9 before it fired on me. I wonder why it didn’t fire a missile at me? Maybe it only had rear aspect IR and that is why it was maneuvering to get behind me, or maybe it had just taken off.
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That definately makes sense. The question realy is, wich airplanes make the cut and it seems not to be that easy to differ just in fighter or not i guess. Afaik, AWACS gives vector to threat for a SU-34 but not for a SU-25/39. Both aren’t fighters, but the SU-34 carries MRM’s while the SU-25/39 doesen’t. Maybe that has some influence. Interesting informations about the difference in between “bandit” and “hostile” though, but that makes me cry for more complex ROE’s in Falcon BMS….
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A Su-34 is a multirole fighter. A Su-25 is an attack jet. One can BFM, and one has this thing the IPs call BFM so their pilots dont get too horribly bent out of shape.
More complex ROEs would first need the AI to have less godlike knowledge on ID, and that would break the existing dynamic of the sim. I dont think its impossible, but I do think it would be a lot of work, and I dont think its a priority for the devs.
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Realy, are you sure? According to Wikipedia and to the Tactical Reference in BMS, The SU34 is a fighter-bomber/attack airplane, not a multirole fighter like the typhoon f.e. I think i’m going to test a few more planes in TE, if they are considered to be threats or not… Seems like this is the only way to find out wich airplanes make the difference.
